Lebel R35 Questions

[cipherk98]

So I've wanted a French rifle for awhile, but with the high price of Lebels had settled for a Berthier or MAS36. However, I lucked out at a local auction today and snagged this St Etienne built 1886 M93 R35 Lebel Carbine at a very reasonable sum. However, this one has some odd features I've not seen on other guns. The only thing I know is that it is not a bubba built carbine as it is stamped as it should be.

First, the front band has no provisions for a stacking rod, and the lower band has no swivel. The lower band is marked with a P, a mark that reappears on the trigger guard. In addition there is no bayonet lug. Also made note of the difference in bluing on the end of the barrel and the odd finish on the front band.

Next, on the rear of the stock there is a patch and the faint remains of a serial number on it. It almost appears to have been to replace a cavalry style sling mount, but even this is different than the type found on Berthiers. I have seen one picture of an R35 with a sling mounted in this fashion but could not find a picture that showed the mount.

Finally, it's not painted black, but instead a dull gray blue on the receiver and barrel. The serial and prefix suggest, if I read the source right, approximately 1988 production on the receiver, while the barrel is clearly marked 1916. It's obviously been refinished at some point given some light pitting under the finish, most likely when it got the new barrel. I've attached some pictures as I'm curious what people think. Is it possible someone got rid of the stacking rod, forward swivel, and bayonet lug? I was planning to shoot this rifle as it seems to be in good shape with a pretty decent bore and crown.

Information

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[RCS]

There is a Artillery and a Cavalry model of the R35. I would guess (I may be wrong) that you have the less common artillery model

[Aragorn243]

What you have is most likely a very late production M35. These were rushed through as rapidly as possible due to the German invasion. Original barrels were shortened and they most likely did away with the other modifications. Earlier production M35's will all have new production barrels. There is no "artillery or cavalry" version that I'm aware of. Due to the short time period of production this is most likely an uncommon version.

[Aragorn243]

The cut out on the stock is most likely simply to remove the original serial number and give a smooth surface for the new one. The finish on these rifles was a grey parkerization and then paint. Yours may simply have missed out on the paint due to the rush. The difference in dates from the receiver to the barrel isn't unusual. I've heard that all Lebel receivers were made very early and they made so many of them they never needed to make more through the remaining production. All are considered antiques in the US for this reason. Color on the end of the barrel is most likely due to it being cut and the new sight welded on. While I can see not welding on the bayonet lug on the barrel, it does seem odd that the end cap would not have the stacking rod or the reminders of the bayonet system on them. It would have seemed prudent to simply use the original end cap. In that the barrel is tapered, perhaps an original would not fit and they simply made this as an expedient.

[RCS]

Your R35 carbine as pictured above is the R35 Mousqueton d'Artillerie, only these have the sling swivel on the butt stock, the other variation is the
R35 Mousqueton de Cavalerie with the side mounted sling bar

[cipherk98]

I thought about the cut being a clean way to renumber it. The old numbering on the handguard/front wood looks to have been removed though it is still faintly there. I also did not find any calvary models that didn't have the Berthier style cut, so I think it being a clean way to renumber it is a good explanation.

[Aragorn243]

There does appear to be two versions, learn something new every day. The only difference between the two is the butt stock and the placement and type of the sling mount. Does not explain any of the missing items on the front as both versions should have them. Original barrel still suggests very late production just prior to German invasion.

[bob q]

You have the chopped up remains of a carbine . I have several of both versions , the above is not original condition .

[cipherk98]

I took the entire gun apart today to clean and oil it. The lower band was in fact stitched together as the braise/weld is evident on the other side. FWIW the diameter of the barrel is about .710", .1" greater than at the front band so if the taper differed this could be why. The last four digits of my rifle's serial are on the inside of the foregrip/mag tube. It's interesting how best I can tell the bayonet lug was never installed, which is consistent with the lack of a flared part on the on the front band for the butt of the bayonet

[Aragorn243]

Did you try fitting a bayonet on the barrel to see if the diameter works for that? If the bayonet won't fit, I think that would answer some questions.