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  1. #1
    Legacy Member flintlock28's Avatar
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    O.K. to shoot?

    A relative dropped off His Sporterized M1917 Eddystone rifle for me to look at. The relative who borrowed it from Him, told Him it has "Headspace issues". I told Him I have Clymer go, no-go, and Field gauges, and would look it over, although i'm not real familiar with 1917 rifles.

    I removed the extractor, stripped the bolt, and used the gauges. The No-go gauge did fully close, but the Field gauge would not allow the bolt to close....I'd say it would need about 1/8 of an inch more bolt movement to achieve full closure. In my mind, that means the headspace is on the long side, but the rifle is still o.k. to shoot

    I posted this on some other website, and some people agreed with me that it's o.k., but will probably be a little rough on Brass. others acted as if Western civilization would come to an end on the first round fired, and I would be a complete fool to even think of firing this rifle.

    My relative will probably fire no more than 2 boxes of ammo a year thru this rifle; for deer hunting, and to check His aim.

    The rifle appears to be in nice shape with no pitting, and fully functional. I told my relative I would fully clean the bore, go over the rifle and take it to the range to fire, and inspect every casing, for any issues.

    Am i logical in my believing this is o.k. to fire?

    thanx
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    Contributing Member rcathey's Avatar
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    That is my understanding of the usage of the field gauge. Doesn’t sound like your relative will care much if the rifle is rough on brass.
    The 1917 is quite a tough action. I’d be surprised to hear of any issues with one, even with poor headspace.

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Hard to say without seeing it but if all you say is true then it meets military standards for safety and shooting...yes, hard on brass.
    Regards, Jim

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    Legacy Member flintlock28's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies; I'm pretty sure this rifle will have no issues. I am currently using a bore solvent on the bore to remove any Copper. patches are coming out Bluish/Purple, but the bore looks fine. Everything else looks fine.

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    Legacy Member jamie5070's Avatar
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    If he reloads his brass for this rifle only, and only neck sizes them, the brass should last a long time.

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    Legacy Member RC20's Avatar
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    While shooting a gun has far more to do with other aspects than head space, I will say its up to the owner to satisfy themselves.

    What I can say is that all the 1917s I have tested have had a generous head space to the point it would almost close on field reject.

    As these are military guns, they did not meet SAMMI (do not, SAMMI did not exist when these were made).

    You don't need to neck size (and if you do you have to full size 4 or 6 cycles)

    I do minimum shoulder bump back and have no issues. That being you adjust your FL die to move the shoulder back a couple of thousandths (.002)

    The first firing (assuming the head space is not too long) the brass fire forms to THAT chamber. After than it won't grow and you should be good for normally amount of reloads (more if you minimum bump back and or anneal)

    A great deal has been made about head space. There are really two things to it.

    1. If its too long the round won't fire because the case moves forward as the firing pin hit the primer and there is no smack to the anvil, no boom.

    2. If its too short you can't close the bolt.

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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Perrrleeease guys! Finally get it right!

    It's S.A.A.M.I. not SAMMI

    Go here if you don't believe me.

    Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute - Wikipedia

    P.S. Apart from that, I agree completly with RC20 !


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    Legacy Member flintlock28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC20 View Post
    While shooting a gun has far more to do with other aspects than head space, I will say its up to the owner to satisfy themselves.

    What I can say is that all the 1917s I have tested have had a generous head space to the point it would almost close on field reject.

    As these are military guns, they did not meet SAMMI (do not, SAMMI did not exist when these were made).

    You don't need to neck size (and if you do you have to full size 4 or 6 cycles)

    I do minimum shoulder bump back and have no issues. That being you adjust your FL die to move the shoulder back a couple of thousandths (.002)

    The first firing (assuming the head space is not too long) the brass fire forms to THAT chamber. After than it won't grow and you should be good for normally amount of reloads (more if you minimum bump back and or anneal)

    A great deal has been made about head space. There are really two things to it.

    1. If its too long the round won't fire because the case moves forward as the firing pin hit the primer and there is no smack to the anvil, no boom.

    2. If its too short you can't close the bolt.
    Yeah, I agree with what you wrote. I think this chamber is exactly as you described....as per my previous post, the bolt seems like it would probably need another 30 degrees further rotation, to fully close on the Field gauge. From looking at where the bolt normally hits it's stopping point, there is about 1/8th or more of an inch, gap before it's normal stop.

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    Legacy Member flintlock28's Avatar
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    Took the rifle to the range today, no problems with Brass, and accuracy wasn't too great.

    I do have a question though;

    Were these 1917 Enfield's made to have the safety engaged, only after closing the bolt with the safety off? When closing the bolt with the safety off, I could either fire or put the safety on, and then take the safety off, and fire, everything was normal.

    If I put the safety on, and than inserted the bolt, as soon as I took off the safety, the striker would go forward,....not enough to have the firing pin hit the cartridge, but still forward enough, where the trigger would not fire, unless I re-cocked the bolt. Is this normal?

    thanx

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    Contributing Member fjruple's Avatar
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    Flintlock28--

    What you describe is normal for both the Pattern 1914 and Model of 1917 Enfield. In this condition you can insert a small C-clap between the cocking piece and bolt sleeve to disassemble the firing pin assembly from the bolt a lot easier.

    --fjruple

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