Maltby Project Update

[Entropy]

A number of weeks back I posted on a ‘43 Maltby that I had acquired. Initial shooting with limited factory PPU 174gr FMJBT was fairly promising. I subsequently picked up dies and a supply of a few different projectiles in order to see what could be seen. I used RL15 and PPU brass along with standard CCI primers. Data was from Hornady and Sierra. The projectiles were the following:

PPU 174gr FMJBT
Hornady 174gr RN Interlock
Sierra 180gr Pro Hunter

Not much luck with the boat tails even though it seemed to like the factory version. Groups around 5+”@100yds. The Hornady and Sierras did better with a few final groups on those showing around 1.5”@100yds. I narrowed down a few areas using a LabRadar to see the velocity nodes and home to get back out this week to test those areas. Some vertical stringing was noted (from what I understand common) but there were a few promising results. Above 39.0gr with the 174gr, (2350fps) and around 37gr (2250fps) with the 180 seem to hold the most promise. I’m used to precision loading, so this is a bit more basic and my usual OCD is giving me fits. I wish someone (besides Redding at $90) would offer a neck only die. Currently using a Lee Collet but would like to get a bit more tension.

Attachment 113280

I ended up putting a 2.5x Leupold on it, since my older eyes need a bit of help. The goal is a 300-400yd gun to have fun and plink steel, so not sure if I’m going to do more that that. Cheek piece is almost done as it needs a bit more fitting. I’m currently using a foam riser affixed with vet tape for the proper cheek weld.

Attachment 113281


Hopefully get out again this week and finalize the loading and get that end of the puzzle squared away. After the Holidays when the snow is really flying, I’ll work on the faux transit chest.

Information

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[Bindi2]

Get a Lee crimp die and have a play with that as well even with projectile/load combo,s you have discarded. Strange info can float to the top.

[Mt203]

All 8 of mine haven't like 180's as much. 174 SMK's do well along with 150 grain Interlocks. Doesn't make sense to me as the 174's are boat tails, the 150's are flat based along with the 180's. I've only tested loads with 4064 and 3031 though

[Bindi2]

3031 is to hot.. The original projectile was an open based one to upset in worn barrels. Boat tails don't. Flat based barely. Open based boat tails can be turned into the original Mk7. Use a powder that most fills the case for the desired velocity of 2440fps.

[Entropy]

Another option might be a mandrel swap. Lee does not make an undersized mandrel for .303brit. However, the standard size mandrel on the .308win is .3055”. The standard size (the only size) for the .303 is .3085”. The undersize mandrels they offer run about .002” undersize the standard. For example, the undersize .308win is .3035”. So, by utilizing the “standard” sized .308win mandrel, I could increase my neck tension by .003”. I’ll give them a call in a few hours here when they open, but this might be an alternative over the factory crimp die option you mentioned above.

One has to keep in mind here that attempting to squeeze precision out of a combination of barrel, chamber and rifle that may not be entirely capable of it...just might be a blind alley. Hopefully this whole thing will be more in focus later in the week.

[Bindi2]

Using the Lee crimp die you can increase the crimp ever so finely from nothing to almost full lock. I have been using them since the Adam was a boy. They were around long before Bushing dies or changeable mandrels. Can be customized for each rifle of the same calibre. But having said that there seems to be a sweet spot for mine. Thinking about it I may just try a crimp test on a range rifle instead of a barrel tuner as taper crimp on revolver cases work very well.

[Entropy]

I have Lee FCDs for other calibers and they indeed work great. That might be the next step. I have the .308win die on the bench and it would save me about $15USD plus shipping. There seems to be any number of rabbit holes in this project that all seem to involve the outlay of cash...lol

[Entropy]

Spoke to Lee Customer Service this morning. No reason that the smaller diameter .308 mandrel could not be used in the .303 die and collet. So...that option is there to size the necks -.003”.

[Entropy]

Another range trip. I had loaded up a string of what looked promising using the initial data and both the Hornady 174gr RN and the Sierra 180gr Pro Hunter. Powder was again RL15 with one exception. Searching over the web, I discovered several posts detailing using a charge of 37.0gr of IMR-4895 along with the Sierras. All the information described it as the “all purpose” and “all Enfields like it” loading. I had some on the powder shelf so figured I’d give it a try. I loaded up a small spread of 36.7. 37.0, and 37.3. The manuals listed it as well.

Once again, the RL15 loadings were nothing to get excited about. Not worth posting pics, but group size hovered right around 2moa at 100yds with inconsistencies in both velocity and POI from the last test. A bit disappointing and perplexing to say the least. I’m used to pretty consistent results from my handloading and this was a bit frustrating. The one bright point of the day were the IMR-4895 loads. All groups were between 1-1.5moa with much less dispersion and more consistent shot-to-shot velocities. The variance, for example, on the 37.0gr charge was only approximately 15fps for all the shots fired. That”s more like it.

I kept a few of each charge loading to try at 300yds. I had a friend breaking in a 1903a4 and felt compelled to fling a few down range in support of the Commonwealth. The result was actually quite surprising. Using a bench and the same Leupold 2.5x scope, it gave some decent performance. There was some initial “confusion” between the shooter and the spotter but once that was solved, all the shots (with the exception of one I spectacularly shanked) landed as intended. Below is the last 3 shot group that measures just a bit over 4”. Two rounds are 37.3gr charge, and one is 36.7gr charge as well. I had done a hasty plug into Ballistic AE to get some “gouge” numbers to work off at 300yds. Those too were spot on (about 26” drop given a 2120fps muzzle velocity and 0’ DA)as well. A bit of wind (not much) and I wasn’t really correcting for it. I was having enough difficulty with the GIANT crosshairs! About 4” left of POA which is probably the result of the wind and technique. Quite pleased with that.

So what started as a disappointment turned out with a ray of sunshine. I need to look at that 37.gr of 4895 much more carefully. Perhaps this rifle just doesn’t like RL15 for some reason. Holidays coming up, so probably pick this up after. Hopefully get the cheek piece fitted so I can toss the foam, and decide on what to put on it for optics. The Leupold is a nice scope, but the stadia thickness and low power is certainly part of the issue here.

Anyone else have opinions on that IMR-4895 loading?


Attachment 113352

[CINDERS]

I use 46Gns AR2209 or 4350 in your land in all my 303's No.4's, MkIII's and my T it works the powder your using is our equivilant of AR 2206H its to faster powder for the 303's from my experience the fastest powder I used was AR 2208 or Varget where you are found the recoil harmonics to sharp. I played with seating depth and crimp with Taipan .312 HPFB, SMK's, Highland's, Hornady 150 .312 FBSP and The bullet factory 174Gn till all the rifles groups were acceptable it took a few years to get it all together. I used 760 Win at one stage and had a bad experience as in one round as I reckon I suffered a flash over from a low density loading and yeah was not a good experience I was lucky.
I shy away from low density loads now though going to have some fun with some trail boss I have for some light hearted fun at 100M.

I do not think fast powders are the go with the 303's rather they like a constant harmonics not an event so to speak I use 06H in my 308 but never in the 303's there is so much to ponder working out loads/groups I would conduct a ladder test find the weight of powder that the group is tightest there is plenty of info on the web for a ladder test. Then when you have the weight play with one thing at a time dont go crimping and changing a projectile along with a primer as the group could blow out again and you'll be puzzled what caused it.
So my load with what ever projie I tested is the same except for the crimp as I made them the same length as a POF MkVII COAL I fls & TTL each case except in the T just neck and TTL all cases are neck annealed with my AMP machine.
I use RP cases CCI BR primers the load data with the AR 2209/H414/4350 you should go 5% under and work up to it as I cannot accept any responsibility in others using it this load/powder works in my rifles but you may have to tweak it I worked it out from load data to give me 90%+ case fill with 2440fps* projected.
Also modern projies fly allot flatter so say to hit a 100M target your ladder may be at 175-200yd setting anyway I have told you what I do I have won comps with that load my best was defeating 40 other shooters timed multi position over 3-200-100yds at the SASR range in Perth, I have done allot of time like we all do with our rifles just change one thing at a time.
I fell into a trap multi powders & loads and in the end just confused myself