1913 dated 1905 Bayonet in 1917 scabbard

[Aragorn243]

Went to a small auction this afternoon and came home with this. Appears to be in good condition with the exception of a bent quillon. I've looked at quite a few photos and only came across one other that had a bent quillon so I'm assuming it's damage and not a production type. Scabbard could be better, appears to be a first type 1917 with movable wire hanger.

My questions:

Is it original and not a reproduction?

Should I do anything with the bent quillon?

Should I move the scabbard onto my 1917 bayonet and look for another one for this? I know they were issued for the 1905 in 1920 so it is more or less legit. I don't have a scabbard for my 1917.

Fine steel wool the surface rust or leave it alone? Blade is fine, no rust on that it's the crossguard and pommel I'm concerned about.

To be honest, this is a bayonet I never figured i would own due to the going rate for them so I'm hoping this it original. Looks like the real deal to me but I'm no expert. Serial number matches up with year of manufacture.

Information

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[browningautorifle]

That one's as good as they get. The bent quillion isn't unusual and I'd have it straight in a heartbeat. They're durable and it can be done without damage. The scabbard's correct and it's just one of the ones issued. Not the early one but you're going to pay huge for the 1910 scabbard. There's a pic of heavyweight fighter Joe Louis in uniform for the second war and he has a 1905 in that scabbard. They're legit. Don't do much of anything to that whole affair, it's a good looking rig.

[Aragorn243]

Thank you for confirmation. I felt strongly it was the real deal but I didn't have a lot of time to examine it before bidding. Two other blades, a WWII Kabar and a Japanese Arisaka bayonet went pretty cheap. This one went a bit higher at $100. I went there knowing they had bayonets but never expected one of these. They didn't advertise it by type and didn't know the type when they sold it. It was simply a bayonet dated 1913 to them. It was just a small auction I would have loved to have had more money for. I picked up a 1945 dated US entrenching tool with folding pick and a 1944 dated cover for $20. Someone used it to mix concrete so there's some cleaning involved. The other stuff I had to pass on as I used up my cash on those two items. I would have liked the Kabar and the Japanese bayonet for the prices they went for but I already have one of each so I left them go. They both sold prior to this.

How would you straighten the quillon? Brace it and hit it with a block of wood or something else? Would I need to take the handguards off first and block it underneath or just set the pommel on another block of wood?

[gew8805]

Excellent buy and the condition is VG +, as said by BAR, they guard can be straightened but I don't know that I would bother.

The scabbard for the M1917 bayonet and is completely acceptable as a scabbard for the M1905 bayonet. With the loss by damage and wear, the M1910 scabbards were becoming scarce post-WW1 and in the early 1920s, the US Army, ever mindful of expenses, designated the M1917 scabbards as substitute standard for the M1905 bayonet and they continued as such for as long as the full length M1905 bayonet continued to be issued though they were replaced with the new M3 fiber scabbard as soon as possible when issued during WW2.

A quick note, your scabbard is a Second Type for the M1917 bayonet. The First Type had a "D" shaped leather hanger folded over the same standard double hook then riveted to a steel block attached to the back of the top mount. It was not very durable and as production continued, the Americans changed the hook attachment by modifying the throat opening as you see in your scabbard, it was much more durable. For great information on the US M1917 scabbards see Article #11 in Gary Cunningham's "Bayonet Points" series at:

Bayo Points 11

[browningautorifle]

gew8805 has some excellent points there. Good info. I would take the bayonet apart. I use a large bench vise with protected jaws. Take the quillion in the vise and make sure it's tight then use the bayonet to bring the quillion back to correct. You can judge when it's straight and vertical and take out any slight twist by the attitude of the blade and handle. If you slip, you'll mark it. If you don't use protection, you'll mark it. Like he said, you'll have to decide. I've done lots so I know what I want to see happen. Careful...

[Aragorn243]

I don't mind the way the quillon looks although it does bother me a bit that it's not correct. I don't want to mark it, that's for sure.

Thanks for correcting me on the 1917 scabbard. I read one article that said the type one had a movable hook and the type two had a fixed hook and this one moved. No mention of leather attachment.

[Aragorn243]

Jim,

I don't have a large vise but I do have a pair of vise grips. I got some heavy gauge rubber and put it between the grips and the quillion and it unbent with no difficulty. Thanks for the tip. I was careful and didn't mark it.