Cases and Enfields and lube - Oh my!

[jmoore]

Mr Horton's reference does state an oiled chamber will produce an a 19 tons per square inch load on the action which is the same as the proof load marked on L42 bolt heads. But that only applies to original cordite loads. Can you load your own external ballistic equivalent with less chamber pressure? Me not know!

[villiers]

@Ireload2: "How many world wars did the Brits without US participation? Surely you know the answer to this question."

Please remind me when USA entered WWII. And remind me what we paid for Lend Lease. And I´ll remind YOU that we lost a greater proportion of our population than any of our allies, we ousted the terrorists and turned Malaya into an internationally respected state which is still part of the Commonwealth ... What did YOU do in VietNam?

I advise you to take adequate precautions ... as I don´t shoot Enfields just for fun.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Well you see, Villiers, without the US they would not have been world wars, merely local unpleasantnesses that were not the concern of US isolationists.

Patrick

[harry mac]

Pat, British Empire forces fought in both world wars. Even without US involvment, that would still have meant both wars were still global endeavours. At that time Britain stretched quite a bit further South than the Isle of Wight, and a lot further East than Norfolk.

[ireload2]

@Ireload2: "How many world wars did the Brits without US participation? Surely you know the answer to this question."

Please remind me when USA entered WWII. And remind me what we paid for Lend Lease. And I´ll remind YOU that we lost a greater proportion of our population than any of our allies, we ousted the terrorists and turned Malaya into an internationally respected state which is still part of the Commonwealth ... What did YOU do in VietNam?

I advise you to take adequate precautions ... as I don´t shoot Enfields just for fun.

If you don't shoot Enfields for fun that what is the point????
Or is that a threat of some sort?

I have always noticed that the Brits use the % casualties suffered for statistical argument when there were 29 other countries that suffered a higher percentage of casualties.
That you suffered a high population of casualties than any of your allies is not true and is evidence that you have never reviewed the statistics.

I will be glad to remind you that when the US entered the war on Dec 7, 1941. It is standard Commonwealth behavior to mention the date the US entered the war as late - and if the US takes action first then the US is called a war monger nation.

[ireload2]

Well you see, Villiers, without the US they would not have been world wars, merely local unpleasantnesses that were not the concern of US isolationists. Patrick

It is always interesting to hear the Brits talk about getting in over their heads into two World Wars.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Thank you for your concern Harry, but I was in fact aware that the British Empire did have a role in both world wars. I was presenting the US isolationist "not our problem" point of view. The view of people who pretend that the nasty world out there is nothing to do with the land of apple pie.
Ignore the Cuban crisis (REMEMBER THE MAINE)
Ignore WW1 (REMEMBER THE LUSITANIA)
Ignore WW2 (REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR).
Ignore terrorism (REMEMBER 9/11).

And always that nasty world eventually penetrates the apple-pie somnolence with a terrible event that finally shakes an unprepared nation into action. I am well aware that such a simplistic judgement is unfair, but it is an unfair world that punishes lack of preparation. The positive side is that when the sleeping giant awakes it can be awesomely effective - the production of the P14 and M1917 in WW1 and the Liberty ships in WW2 were showpiece examples of what US private enterprise can do in an emergency.

Still, I say it again, if the US had had to rely exclusively on Springfield rifle production in WW1, then the US Expeditionary Force would have been fully armed and ready to go in about 1930.

Patrick

[krinko]

Wow, this is starting to look like Gunboards.
A rambling, pointless argument thread....
Classic.
Plus it has all the flavor and aroma of one of the famous Frumunda Cheeses we produce in the American Midwast during the summer.
Goes great with tea.
-----krinko

[harry mac]

Thank you for your concern Harry, but I was in fact aware that the British Empire did have a role in both world wars. I was presenting the US isolationist "not our problem" point of view. The view of people who pretend that the nasty world out there is nothing to do with the land of apple pie.
Ignore the Cuban crisis (REMEMBER THE MAINE)
Ignore WW1 (REMEMBER THE LUSITANIA)
Ignore WW2 (REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR).
Ignore terrorism (REMEMBER 9/11).
Patrick

Sorry Pat, I read your post in isolation and didn't realise I'd joined one of Ed and i reload's urination contests.
Yes, the US joined both world wars late, but only an idiot wouldn't admit that their help when it arrived was invaluable.
I like and remember Cpl Jones' jibe at the freshly arrived Yanks in Dad's Army, "My dad always said the only thing the Yanks managed to charge in the last shooting match was the 10% interest on the money they lent us!" Needless to say that starts a pub brawl.

[Alfred]

Well theres a swift answer to entering the wars "late" Neville Chamberlain. I'm sure much of Europe felt the Btitish entered the war "late".

I recently read that Leftwing and Rightwing elements in Britian were dead opposed to Britian confronting Germany and did all in their power to convince the British people that war in Europe was none of their affair until Germany violated the Non Agression Pact and attacked the Soviet Union.

The US had territories of its own to protect, stripping our defenses in the Pacific to feed the meat grinder in Europe would have left the Japanese free reign to mop up remaining UK forces in the region and turn Australia into a slave state of the Greater Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.

I've never used a greased or waxed casing, but I've noticed that a well polished chamber does little to no damage to a fired case even when head clearance is generous. A rough chamber on the otherhand will mar the surface of a case even when headspace is tight.

While swabbing out the chamber with a dry patch can remove excess oils, it can't make the chamber completely free of oil and some lubrication remains. Only cleaning the chamber throughly with solvents before each shot would allow a clean and oil free chamber at each firing.

Excessive grease in a chamber prevents the neck from expanding to release the bullet, and greatly increases chamber pressure.
Built up hard fouling in the chamber neck can do the same. The effect being much like use of an oversized bullet when case neck thickness and chamber dimensions don't allow expansion. This was known to have caused excessive pressures when .268 bullets intended for the 6.5 Carcanco were loaded into cases intended for .264 bullets.

BTW
I've seen the claim that a 6.5 Arisaka rechambered for the .30/06 was fired without signs of excessive pressures. That sounds like BS to me. It depends on their idea of what excessive pressure is.
The Arisaka is strong and might survive such a fluke, but I wouldn't count on it. Hatchers Notebook describes the firing of .35 Remington rounds in a 7.7 Jap rifle. on the third or fourth shot the rifle exploded and sent shards of steel into the shooters brain. He survived, but I've seen this same incident quoted by others claiming neither rifle nor shooter were harmed.

I have read of Japanese 6.5 bores that slugged at closer to .270 and somewhat over that.
Chinese 6.8 barrels salvaged from captured stores may have been used to rebarrel worn Japanese rifles. Variation in bore sizes is fairly common in WW2 rifles, and even more so in pre WW2 rifles of all types. Complaints of Undersized bullets were also common in the literature of the time.

I've asked around about use of cast bullets in the two groove Savage barrels, most say the two groove doesn't work well with cast bullets. One reply claimed that cast bullets work fine if sized to .315.
Now using an oversized bullet may work fine in one rifle, if the chamber neck is loose enough and case neck brass is thin. But if brass is thicker and chamber tighter the same load could be hazardous. Add hard fouling of the neck and shoulder and an accident could occur.

A clean and polished chamber is a valuable plus in handloading and safe firing in general.