Enfield headspace issue?

[happydude]

I've got an Enfield headspace question for you folks. My first Enfield so I'm not sure.

I picked up a mismatched No. 4 Mk. I* Savage, with #1 bolt head, the other day but think I may have a headpsace issue. The fired brass, from 180 and 150 grain Federal hunting ammo, has a noticeable color change around the case head area. The bottom 1/4" of of the case just above the rim is bright and shiny and above that the case is much lighter in color. You can feel the case change shape slightly at the juncture of the color change. It's not making a single line, but rather two distinct sections.

The rifle was previously owned by a CGN friend of mine, who reloaded for it and didn't note any problems, at least to me. My Mosin Nagant does the same thing to its brass so I'm not sure if this just a trait of rimmed cartridges or if both my rifles have problems. I'm really wishing I had a digital camera about now.

If this is a problem, I'll be needing a different bolt head but I seem to recall that #1 is as large as you can go which means I'm going to need to re-barrel it, right?

Information

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[stencollector]

#1 bolt head is the second smallest normally available. Commonly available and larger are the #2 and #3 bolt heads. There is also the #0 bolthead, but that would be going in the wrong direction if it is a headspace issue you are having.
There are rumoured to be larger (#4) and smaller (#00) boltheads out there as well.

[happydude]

I should also note, cases stretched from about 2.212ish to 2.230 with the necks stretching a fair bit. This doesn't sound good. Where might one track down the suitable Enfield headspace gauges, and which bolt head direction will I need to go?

[tiriaq]

Are you seeing the expansion ring which forms at the point where the solid casehead makes the transition to the case wall? Are primers protruding? With a little right angled probe, can you feel a groove inside the casse about 1/4" from the base? Try sectionning a few cases. If there is a ring forming which will lead to incipient separation, you will see it.
What you are observing could be normal expansion in the often generous Lee Enfield chamber. This isn't the same as excessive headspace.
Is there a gunsmith in your area who has gauges? Supply houses like Brownells sell gauges.

[Claven2]

It's normal for the case to have an annular bulge ring where the brass transitions from thick base to thin case wall. As tiriaq points out, as long as there is no insipient separation forming, you're fine. Just neck size when you reload so you minimize stress on the brass and segregate your brass for each .303 rifle.

Generally, long before you get a case head separation due to headspace, you'll get other trouble signs like backing out or severely flattened primers.

Neck stretch is a non-issue and is why you trim brass when you reload

[happydude]

Man, I am relieved or what. Primers are not flatening or backing out at all, so it must just be the Enfield chamber. That brass sure moves around a lot though, freaked me out. I've got the RCBS neck size die so I'll stick with that. I will pick up some gauges from Brownells for future use. This is the first rifle I've reloaded for, my other two rifles shoot surplus and my .45 doesn't have this problem, so I guess this was a rookie panic attack for nothing.

Thanks for the help folks.

[Claven2]

Remember, the .303 headspaces on the rim of the cartridge, nto the shoulder. The chambers were cut long on purpose to account for dirt, sand, mud and fouling from battlefields.

When the round fires, the brass will expand to completely fill the loose chamber. This is totally normal. For reloading though, you only want to neck size and use the brass in just that rifle from now on. If you ful length size it, you'll work harden the brass and reduce its lifespan dramatically.

Hope that helps!

[tiriaq]

Military and SAAMI gauges differ. Brownells will be selling SAAMI gauges. GO is .064, NO GO is .068 (I think), FIELD is .074. Military use .064 and .074. If a rifle swallows .074, its too loose. SAAMI NO GO is useful if rebarrelling, or setting headspace to a minimum. A lot of servicable rifles will accept an .068 gauge, and are within military spec. For handloading, and perhaps better accuracy, minimum headspace is better. If you get only one gauge, get the .074. If rifle accepts it, without any resistance on the bolt handle, adjustment is needed. I have a quantity of brass fired in current service issue No. 4 rifles. A significant percent must be culled because of incipient separations. Government rifles firing issue ammunition.
If you want to see fireformed .303 brass, cases fired in a Ross with the enlarged chamber are rather dramatically reshaped, compared with a Lee Enfield.

[Rick]

Primers are not flatening or backing out at all, so it must just be the Enfield chamber. That brass sure moves around a lot though, freaked me out. I've got the RCBS neck size die so I'll stick with that. I will pick up some gauges from Brownells for future use.

In my opinion, the best way to travel with the Lee Enfield is Lee's collet sizing dies. Far less trimming and working of brass. The part number for .303 British is 90717. I usually don't have much good to say about Lee products, but the collet sizers are the pick of the litter in my opinion.

[woodchopper]

I test mine with a .074" gauge.

as for reloading, I don't really want to trry to keep all the different rifles brass seperated so I'm still full lenght sizing, up to 3 reolads now with no problems, but I am using mostly IVI brass.

I'm working on an ideal to case anneal the necks, but still in the early stages, it will be automatic and be able to handle volume.