Reloads for FAL

[concretus]

Okay, I've read a bunch about alot of people preferring Varget to reload for the FAL. I've read that the charge for a 150gr bullet is approx 43-44gr. I'd like to try using Sierra 165gr hpbt. and I'm guessing that there van be some great performance achieved with Varget. I'm using LC-77 brass and Win LR primers. Any body out there got a good recipe using Varget? What about using Win brass?

On a side note. I want to mass load some 147-150 gr ammo because of the increasing cost of milsurp ammo. I have a bunch of IMR-3031 and H-4895. Any information on using any of these powders? Any results?

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Information

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[Sunray]

FAL's have always been out of my budget range. Then they got declared evil, up here. However, The CF let me use their rifles for several years. Gave me the ammo too. Even though it wasn't greatly accurate ammo. Neithere were the rifles. Had a few extremely well maintained mid 50's vintage rifles on my MIU.
"...preferring Varget to reload for the FAL..." Varget is a good .308/7.62 powder period. You're not going to get match accuracy out of an FAL though. Good accuracy, but not match accuracy. FAL's are battle rifles. Anyway, one of the guys who came into the gun shop I worked in, long ago, said he got good accuracy with BL-C2.
"...want to mass load..." Work up the load first. Same as you would for any rifle. And just like any other rifle, you have to work up the load for your rifle.
Hogdon gives 44.0 to 47.0(compressed) of Varget for a 150 grain bullet. Hogdon has data for both IMR-3031 and H-4895 on their site. Compressed loads are nothing to worry about.
"...like to try using Sierra 165gr hpbt..." For hunting? Lotta rifle to lug around. Mind you, so is the M1 I've been known to lug. I think I'd go with the Sierra 165 SBT. Likely feed better. As long as it fits in the mag. They should.
"...LC-77 brass..." Once the primer crimp is gone, you'll have to reduce the charge by 10% and work up. Milsurp brass is like that. Winchester brass is not.

[concretus]

I've tried other powders but one hasn't really stood out. Yes you are correct, Very rare will you get MOA accuracy out of an FAL. But for some reason my rifle likes the 165gr bullets better as far as accuracy goes. I've tried the SBT's in the FAL (I use that bullet in all my hunting rifles) but the tip gets deformed bad. That's why I considered the HPBT. I wasn't intending to use the FAL to hunt with but I might get a wild hair.....
You are right also about the brass. (especially dropping charges when you use mil brass...) I bought a few hundred pieces of LC brass when I owned a CETME because they are real hard on commercial brass. They do not recommend using commercial brass in a CETME because of case head separation. (Enough sidetrack). Thanks fr the response..

[joem]

The only thing my CETME will digest is steel cased ammo. Brass cases seize up in the chamber after firing.

[NuJudge]

I've shot a lot of Remington 165gr soft point flat base bullets through a British FAL barrel on an Imbel upper receiver. I found it liked a moderate charge of IMR4895 and Winchester primers. Varget has never been a lucky powder for me.

I did shoot a number of reduced range US NRA National Match courses with it. It could shoot about 3.5 MOA. It did not seem sensitive to sling tension. For awhile I fitted it with a US hooded rear sight aperture, but that did not help much.

A lot of these rifles are really hard on the case rims. Shoot yours some to see if it bends case rims back on extraction. If it does, polish your chamber, use a smaller gas piston, and a stronger gas piston spring, as well as set your gas relief valve on the most open setting that will reliably function. A faster powder might also help, but I haven't tried that yet.

[Sunray]

"...165gr bullets...the tip gets deformed bad..." Hi. The .308 tends to like 165 grain bullets out of any rifle. It'll kill any game you are to hunt. Daft to use a battle rifle for hunting, given the weight of 'em, but why not? 1903A3's, Mausers, M1's and Lee-Enfields were battle rifles.
"...the tip gets deformed bad..." The point of any bullet doesn't matter. It's the base that matters.
"...considered the HPBT..." Try some 168 grain match bullets. They're HPBT's. Pricey though.
"...Brass cases seize up in the chamber after firing..." Cetme's are a rifle unto themselves. It's not an FAL. It came before the HK91, but give it a really good bath. Possibly a rough chamber. Mind you, if it's a Century rifle(and most of 'em in the U.S. are), it may not matter. Century has no concept of what QC is.

[concretus]

Well I was hoping to get as much information as I could to help make a good call. As far as reloading 7.62/308 goes, I was kinda sheltered. I used to shoot Highpower and Slow-Fire prone and used only one powder for .308 and .223. That was AA2520, When I got the FAL, it didn't group as well as I would have liked w/that powder so I'm sort of starting from scratch. With the understanding that the FAL is a battle rifle, I won't get the accuracy that I expect from my target rifle or mu hunting rifle. There is many of ya'll that have had very good results w/other powders and load recipes. I've tried, H-335, H-4895, IMR-4064, AA2520, IMR-3031. I bought some Varget this weekend to try (especially for 165gr bullets). I have a couple of hundred 147gr bullets that I want to load because of the rising costs of milsurp ammo. I figured I can use one of the other powders and get NATO ammo-like results.
Thanks everybody for your input.

[concretus]

After dozens of combination and five different powders. I think I got the combination that works in my FAL. Took it for a ride this weekend at the range. Heck I'll use this load if I carry this FAL in the woods next year. Thanks to everybody for all the input. Now I'll work on a milsurp duplicate load w/ 147-150 gr bullets...This group was with LC brass, Win LR primers, 43.6 gr of Varget and 165 Sierra HPBT bullets off a bench @ 100yds with a Burris 4,5-14x scope. Measured at .90" beerchug:

[Former Cav]

<<<<<Reloads for FAL

Okay, I've read a bunch about alot of people preferring Varget to reload for the FAL. I've read that the charge for a 150gr bullet is approx 43-44gr. I'd like to try using Sierra 165gr hpbt. and I'm guessing that there van be some great performance achieved with Varget. I'm using LC-77 brass and Win LR primers. Any body out there got a good recipe using Varget? What about using Win brass? >>>>>>

CRONOGRAPHED LOADS

with an M1A Springfield in 7.62 Nato.
ONce fired LC brass from scharch mfg.
Large rifle winchester brand primers (standard)
150 Hornady brand BTSP bullets
45.0 grains of varget brand powder
HIgh 2755, LOW 2710, AVG 2722 Spread 45 Std Dev 18
Very Accurate Load, tight groups, 1 in with IRON sights and 62 year old eyes!

Radway green 1985 same rifle as aboave 2699 (one round only)

Load as above (varget) but through a FAL SAR 48 Match rifle
High 2736, LOW 2696, AVG 2721 Spread 40 Std Dev 17

FAL SAR 48 Match rifle
Radway Green 1985
High 2824, Low 2786, AVG 2801, Spread 38 Std Dev 20
CAVIM 1990
High 2666, Low 2633, AVG 2645, Spread 33 Std Dev 13
These are both very accurate and are TIGHT groups. 1 in at 100 or less!!
Wish I had 100 cases of each!

M1A Springfield in 7.62 Nato
Remington Peters Nickel Brass (easier to find in the grass)
CCI # 34 (magnum rated) primers
44.5 Grains Varget
High 2761, Low 2742, AVG 2751 Spread 19 Std Dev 9

CAVIM 1990 dated
High 2716, Low 2699, AVG 2710, spread 17 Std Dev 9
Very accurate as above in the FAL

Bulgarian Makarov
Sellier and Bellot ammo
910 (one round with me only... too bad)

Wolf brand for above
High 1071 Low 1049, AVG 1057 Spread 22 Std Dev 11

Savage Rifle, bolt, 1 in 8 twist Kreiger SS barrel 6.5 x .284
Lapua Brass
Lg Rifle Winchester Brand standard primer
142 Sierra Match King MOLY coated
48.3 Grains Hodgdon 4831 SC
High 2735, LOW 2687, AVG 2716, Spread 48, Std Dev 25

Savage Rifle, Bolt, 1 in 9.25 savage barrel .243 winchester
R/P Nickel Brass
Standard Large Rifle Winchester Brand primers
75 Grain Hornady Brand VMAX MOLY coated
39.7 grains Varget
High 3308, Low 3212, AVG 3272, Spread 96 Std Dev 52

AK type 56 Poly tech 7.62 x 39
Chicom copper washed bullets 1967 dated
High 2374, Low 2345, Avg 2357, Spread 29, Std Dev 10

Savage Rifle, Bolt, 25-06 savage barrel (shot out in 750 rounds!!)
R/P Nickel Brass
Standard large rifle Winchester brand primers
117 grains Sierra BT MOLY coated
40.8 Varget
High 2747, Low 2734, AVG 2706 Spread 46, Std Dev 23
This was the most WORTHLESS caliber I have ever owned. It became the 6.5 x .284

YUGO M48 8 mm Mauser Bolt rifle.. from Ames for about $89 way back when
8MM Turk surplus ammo 1944 date brass case on stripper clips
Unassembled.. bullet weights 155.0, 154.9, 154.0, 154.0, and 153.9
Powder is flake type weighs 49.1, 48.9, 49.2, 49.1 and 49.1 (pretty consistent)
High 2836, Low 2800 AVG 2815 Spread 36, Std Dev 17

Romanian Ammo 1972 date, painted laquered green steel case
High 2621, Low 2602, AVG 2608, Spread 19, Std Dev 07

|AR 15 DPMS 1 in 8 twist “service rifle” for NRA highpower
LC Brass
Standard small rifle Winchester brand primers
77 grain sierra match king MOLY coated
24.5 grains Varget
High 2667, LOW 2600, AVG 2633, Spread 67 Std Dev 26

Colt Govt Model 1911 in 45
MIXED brass
Large Standard Pistol Winchester brand primers
200 grain semi wad cutter bevel based
5.7 grains of Winchester #231 powder
High 855, Low 827, Avg 845, Spread 28, Std Dev 10
Same pistol, PMC brand factory loads 230 BALL FMJ
High 826, Low 797, Avg 806, Spread 29, Std Dev 11

This is through a Oehler 35 P Chronograph and is about 8 years worth of data
Sadly, I’ve sold lots of these weapons. Just don’t have enough room for them.

NOTE that you will have to REDUCE the loads for your 7.62 NATO if you are using military brass (the cases are thicker and therefore the volume inside if smaller.....which is called "interior ballistics"). Also, be advised that if you use CCI number 34 primers they are to be considered as MAGNUM primers per the Sierra loading manual.

the difference between .308 and 7.62 Nato is about .001 in headspace. Commercial grade .308 can be loaded up to about 60,000 PSI where as Military 7.62 is typically about 50,000 PSI.
I always try to duplicate the so called "military load" which for a 150 grain bullet is 2760 FPS and I've worked a load at the top the works very well.
BTW.... Varget is NOT temperature sensitive. Winchester 748 (I USED to use) IS VERY temperature sensitive.
I use Varget "across the board" now in .223, .243, and .308. It burns clean and does everything I want it to do.
HTH
Bob

[bellerophon]

I had my best results so far with 125gr nosler ballistic tip and 44gr of IMR3031, winchester brass, federal or rws primers.
1.5 MOA from imbel metric FAL, equipped w. belgian army scopemount and hensoldt 4x24 scope at 100m range.