M1917 notched receiver

[Amore2]

I haven't found the right answar to the notched reciever yet, but I'm absolutely sure, that it has nothing to do with the .22 lr. trainingrifle.

In Denmark we have a special cal. .22 training version of the model 1917, named "5,6 mm instruktionsgevær M/60(53/17)":

Untitled Document

Years ago I shot a lot with the M/60(53/17) in the Danish Hjemmeværn (Homeguard). I think it still might be in use today.

regards
Niels

[Cosine26]

I do not wish to “flame” anyone but the US Rifle M1917 was not designed to accommodate the .30M1 ammo. The last of the US built M1917’s were manufactured no later than 1919.
Development of the .30M1 ammo did not start until after the termination of WWI though the shortfall of the original M1906 ammo for long range fire was recognized during WWI when the Browning MG in 30-06 was initiated into combat.
Development of the .30 M1 ammo started circa 1919 and was declared standard in 1925.
Regardless, a notched receiver was not required for use of .30M1 ammo in the M1917. M1906, .30 M1 ammo, .30 M2 ammo and all standard issue 30-06 ammo was of the same length. It had to be so that it would feed through standard automatic weapons. The US M1917 rifle will handle clip loading of .30M1 ammo with no difficulty without the use of a notch.

[shjoe]

thanks Niels. the site you reference is the same as the one which i found with the same training rifle designation. i am "shooting in the dark" trying to resolve the notched receiver issue. at first i thought that only eddystones were notched, but now it seems that remington and winchester could be also. i dont have enough back ground or knowledge regarding M1917 rifles. just exploring possibilities until a better explaination comes forth. i am glad that a danish forum member has added first-hand knowledge and experience to the issue. question: do you recall if all danish M53/17 training rifles are notched and how did they shoot 22lr ammo in them? thanks in advance for your response. best, john

[Amore2]

The trainingrifle M/60(53/17) was made as an official trial by the danish army in the beginning of 1958, where a worn-out cal. 30-06 were changed to cal. 22 by inserting a short barrel, change the bolt and cutoff the magazine, so the trainingrifle were single shot. This first trialversion was named T/57(53/17).

Two years later, in 1959, an order was given of 1000 pieces of M/60(53/17), which were the official name of "production"-version. The year after another order was given for extra 1000 pieces. Unfortunally they were not rebuild until may (500) and dec. 1962 (1500 pieces).

The rebuild was made on the Danish Våbenarsenal.

As you can see on the attached photo, they were not (all ?) notched. I don't recall, how our trainingrifles looked liked or if they were notched.

By the way, I can see, that a large number of the danish cal. 30-06 had changed the front sight. The elder members of the Homeguard had difficulties to see the original, narrow frontsight clearly. In 1960 it was decited to change the frontsights from the original, flat version to a cylinderformed (2,8 mm. diam.) sight in the same hight (3,6 mm.) as the original. The changed frontsight improved the shooting-results by 13-20 pct. for both young and older shooters.

Niels

[shjoe]

great photo and explaination, Niels. the front sight which i observed was as you described. i had initially thought that it was an "aftermarket" non-issue sight. best, john

[Dan Wilson]

I must say, it would make an interesting piece to add to the collection.

Dan

[shjoe]

good point, dan. as i have mentioned, i may have an obligation to the forum members and in the interests of science and discovery, to purchase, photograph and investigate markings on that rifle. let you know by the first of the week. best, john

[Amore2]

I took a picture of the two types of frontsights. The original flat and the danish cylinder-shaped.

The picture of the danish frontsight is from my own Remington model 1917 with the notch. It's the same one, you might have seen on our website.

regards
Niels

[Amore2]

I have investigated some more in the question of the notch. I have talked to two of our leading experts in weapons. They both say, that the notch is made for fitting af longer cartridge. The same notch is also seen on Swedish Mausers.

After that answer I checked up with some litteratur about the subject. I think the notch could have been made to fit the National Match cartridge from the beginning of the 1920'es. There were several trials in these years with different bullets. In 1924 it was a 200 grain and finally in 1925 it ended up with a national match-bullet on 172 grains. Until that point the standard bullet was 150 grain.

With the National Match-cartridge it was their idea to get the new bullit closer to the riflings in the barrel by extending the whole cartridge from 3.350 inch. to 3,400 inch. In the metric system it's from 8,51 cm to 8,64 cm.

I think the notch could have been made to fit theese National Match cartridges in the first years of the 1920'es. Later on the standard cartridge was changed and the National Match cartridge lost it's meaning by that time.

If that' the truth, theese rifles must have been used in competitions and must hereby be among the well-shooting examples of the M.1917.

I don't know if that's the right answer, but it's possible. If you are interested, you can read more about the National Match cartridge in "Hatchers Notebook" by Julian S. Hatcher, p. 393.

Regards
Niels

[shjoe]

excellent photos and research, Niels. the eddystone which i had seen does indeed have the danish "post" style front sight and the notched receiver. seating the bullet closer to the rifling on target/match rifles is not un heard of and may be common practice. it is very possible that you have or are about to solve the notched receiver issue. being able to use a stripper clip with the longer OAL match cartridges may have necessitated the notched receiver for clearence when using the stipper clip. this may indicate that M1917 rifles with notched receivers "could" have been used in national match competition post WW1 and into the 20s. the danish post front sight would have been added later after lend/lease and when issued to the danish home guard. my next question would be why M1903 springfield rifles used in national match competition do not have notched receivers. possibly, because the M1903 springfield has a magazine cut off allowing for single loading. where as the M1917 does not have that feature, making a stripper clip loading mandatory. just a WAG. the research continues...