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Originally Posted by
Claven2
Did you use a filled for the hollow space left in the case, or are the powders you're advocating reasonably resistant to positional sensitivity to not matter much?
This could become a very long discussion (and maybe it should).
I worked up four loads that I have employed in 24 ga Fiocchi shotgun hulls (some with a shot wad acting as a sabot), and in the brass Magtech 24 ga shell. All loads were under a 480 gr custom cast bullet, and are quite mild, my objective being 1100-1200 fps. None used filler, except the shot wad which took up all empty space, and only the Unique load was seemingly unaffected by position. I found H4227 the slowest powder that would burn consistently at the low pressures I employed (~12,000 psi) - slower powders tended to just spit out the bullet along with mostly unburned powder.
Unique - 18.0 grs - 1150 fps
SR4759 - 35.0 grs - 1100 fps
AA5744 - 35.0 grs - 1100 fps
H4227 - 35.0 grs - 1100 fps
I intend to try some IMR Trail Boss (15.0 grs) this winter. Trail Boss is VERY "fluffy" - 15.0 grs would consume as much space as 30 grs of Unique and 40-45 grs of the others and might be the perfect powder. I'll report back.
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10-16-2006 07:22 PM
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Me too!
As Andy knows, one of my buddies is deer hunting with one of my Sniders this year and another buddy of mine loaded up some duplex rounds for me, which are reasonably accurate:
Federal 210 primer
7 gr 4759
57 gr cartridge powder
dacron filler
535 gr cast
But it was a PITA to do the clean-up of both cases and rifle. If there is a safe smokeless alternative, I am all ears - even if it costs $45 a pound! Heck, the clean-up time is worth that already!!!
Doug
I am military surplus myself....but I have no collector value........a bit rusty, a few parts missing, seen some rough service, but have been well oiled over the years....
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I plan to try the new IMR Trail Boss in my Snider. Something like 15.0 grs. This stuff fills a lot of space and works great at low pressures. I'll report back.
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(Deceased April 21, 2018)
Not to be the odd man out, but I thought the reason one buys a BP rifle is to ENJOY the STINK and SMOKE, and making the guy next you with his mouse gun gag and puke Otherwise why not just buy a rifle designed for smokeless? Cleaning the Martini is not a problem if you have the same funnel used for cleaning the SMLE, and there should still be lots of those in Canada.
I just pop out the breechblock, and use the funnel. No problems.
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Originally Posted by
John Sukey
Not to be the odd man out, but I thought the reason one buys a BP rifle is to ENJOY the STINK and SMOKE, and making the guy next you with his mouse gun gag and puke
Otherwise why not just buy a rifle designed for smokeless? Cleaning the Martini is not a problem if you have the same funnel used for cleaning the SMLE, and there should still be lots of those in
Canada.
I just pop out the breechblock, and use the funnel. No problems.
I,ll second that statement sniders and martinis are more fun when you use the B/P ...everyone at the range sits up and takes notice
most of em wander over and wont leave till you let em pop off a few.thats half the fun of shooting these old boomers.
but....I,d sure like to try a few smokeless sometime
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I use SR4759 as the starter in my duplex loads with B/P and use it alone for smokeless loads in the Snider, M/H and my 43 Mauser. I had a very experienced Snider competitor tell me that even a full case of SR4759 in the Snider would cause no problems...I am NOT suggesting this...I repeat I am not suggesting this... but use it to make a point that my small loads are safe. Some smokeless powders do not ignite properly in small doses. Look around the net for advise....Dave
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There is a lad looking for advice on another Canadian forum:
Western Canada Hunting Forums - 577 Snider
And I referred him over here, hope you fellows can help him out!
Doug
I am military surplus myself....but I have no collector value........a bit rusty, a few parts missing, seen some rough service, but have been well oiled over the years....
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While I don't mind the BP for BPCR I would also like a smokeless load for hunting. Will be working on these loads and the Shockley stuff soon and report back...Bob
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What is all this talk about boiling water and soap? I didn't think anyone actually did that anymore! I buy el cheapo window cleaner from Fields for $1 a bottle. In my Snider, I just remove the little retaining screw, and the hinge pin and breach block. Then, put the gun upside down in the cleaning cradle. Just soak one patch in the window cleaner, and put it on your shotgun rod. Rub it up and down a few times, repeat once more. Then dry the bore, and oil well. It takes less time to clean my Snider than it does scrubbing copper out of my modern rifles. Once a year I totally dismantle the rifle, and check it for rust etc. Never a problem. I shoot 72gr.of Goex FG, Federal large rifle primers, and the Rapine Trashcan bullet. This load is accurate enough to hit a 1litre milk carton every shot at 100 yards. I lube with 50-50 beeswax and Crisco lube, and sometimes add some corn oil in Winter. The hollow base in the bullet is filled with lube, and a bit of Cream-of-Wheat goes over the powder. I can fire sixty shots with no real loss of accuracy(all the brass I own!) and the brass comes out reasonably clean. When I get home, I just throw the brass in the sink with some soap and vinegar, and it cleans up in about ten minutes. You should clean brass A.S.A.P. after shooting, but the rifle can be kept in a warm, dry room for a couple of days if you don't have time. The exception is when you use Pyrodex, which is very corrosive. THAT stuff will rust a gun in just a few days. I have found NO advantage in using magnum primers, or drop tubes in the Snider. Both of these help in my .43 MAUSER, though. I hope this helps! I almost forgot, don't use regular Windex for cleaning, it has too much ammonia, and may be hard on the Iron barrels in Sniders.
Last edited by K31; 04-10-2008 at 08:18 PM.
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I have shot alot of 577 Snider and 577/450 Martini and here is what I do over the winter months. All brass is cleaned and resized after every outing especially the 577/450 after it is annealed. When reloading, the target load for 577 Snider is around 50 grs of FFG and I drop in 2 grs of either bullseye or Unique over the flash hole and 50 grs FFG on top. The bullet is a 505 gr hollow base mini that has been wrapped in paper up to the scraping groove and has a rat tail covering the base. The bullet was greased in the grooves first. The Martini uses a 450 solid round nose bullet (Lee mould), sized and lubed then paperpatched also. The target load was 75grs FFG. The charge is started with 2 grs of bullseye or unique over the flash hole and topped up with FFG to about 75 grs which is what I use. The air space in each cartridge is closed up by shredding a 20 or 12 gauge felt wad and adding it in. These loads have worked well for accuracy and were told to me by people who used them in competition along before I did. The smokless powder is there to ensure good ignition and keep the barrel clean.