Winchester 97 Riot Gun Question??????

[garandman57]

Got a 97 Winchester riot gun on the way, should be here today.
Is the anyway to know from the serial no. if it is for sure riot gun or a cutdown????
Serial no is 441030
The serial no is stamped on the recvr and the barrel. It is a take-down??? Not a solid recvr.
Will get pics when it arrives.
Thanks for your help!
TerryR

Information

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[garandman57]

Barrel is marked "FULL" overall length is 18". There is an engraving below the serial no.
OPL 447092
It is hand engraved. Who ever wrote it was very shakey!
Is this POLICE??
And when I fired it, if I sqeezed the trigger and held it sqeezed, as I pumped the shells though she fired them continously! Like a trench or riot.
Help me put here, is this a converted long gun to a riot???
Thanks TerryR

[gunut 1]

sounds like it....those darn cowboy shooters have cut down a lot of 97s

[Vi Shooter]

All 97's will slam-fire when pumped with the trigger held back. This is no indication that the shotgun was originally a riot gun. I take advantage of this when I am training a new shooter to take his finger off the trigger between shots. My "training" gun is a circa 1905 series D that still works just fine.

On the other hand, the "Full" marking on your barrel is a very good indication that it was originally a "long gun."

[gunluvver]

That "OPL" might actually be a sloppy "ODL" for a driver's license number from a state that begins with "O".

[Armyphotog]

Got a 97 Winchester riot gun on the way, should be here today.
Is the anyway to know from the serial no. if it is for sure riot gun or a cutdown????
Serial no is 441030
The serial no is stamped on the recvr and the barrel. It is a take-down??? Not a solid recvr.
Will get pics when it arrives.
Thanks for your help!
TerryR

If it's a double serial number, it IS a takedown.

[Armyphotog]

Barrel is marked "FULL" overall length is 18". There is an engraving below the serial no.
OPL 447092
It is hand engraved. Who ever wrote it was very shakey!
Is this POLICE??
And when I fired it, if I sqeezed the trigger and held it sqeezed, as I pumped the shells though she fired them continously! Like a trench or riot.
Help me put here, is this a converted long gun to a riot???
Thanks TerryR

Should say CYL if a riot gun, and the barrel would be 20 inches or just a tad under. What letter shows above the serial? Should be a D or an E.

[gunsmokeTPF]

Whether, or not a particular 97 winchester riot was originally manufactered as such can only be determined with any certainty by obtaining a letter from the Buffalo Bill Historical Center in Cody Wyoming. They are the only ones with the original winchester factory records. No one can tell on any website, especially without seeing the weapon in person, if it is original. The riot version's been around since prior to 1900 and nothing about them is written in stone. There were some that were sent out to a private entity by winchester, due to their small inventory, to be cut down in order to fill an army request for them around 1913 for the Philipine campaign. Back then they weren't even marked as such and only research will you get you an answer. I have one I purchased around 5 years ago and was always suspicious of it, due to the fact that there appeared to be a couple of very slight wrench marks on the barrel just forward of the receiver. The barrel was marked cyl as they usually are and everything else seemed OK, but that doubt was always there. The reason I bought it was because I've passed up so many riots and trench guns over the years and this one being the oldest was really clean and shootable showing nice character. You can sometimes tell a cutdown by carefully checking around the front sight bead to see if the finish around it had been disturbed, which mine wasn't. I finally got up the nerve to send for the letter several months ago. When the letter came my hands were shaking a little and I expected to be disappointed. Well, shame on me cause it turns out it was made in 1900 and when I saw the word riot in the letter I almost fell off my chair. It felt like Xmas and I'm a very happy man knowing I can show that letter and nothing else needs to be said. Also, different PD's were known for cutting them down, but be aware of fakes, especially ones with stenciled PD names on the stock. Even cowboy cutdowns are worth having.

[gunsmokeTPF]

Sorry for stating the incorrect date for the Philippine campaign. I wrote 1913, but it lasted from 1899 to 1902. I can't say where 1913 came from. I hate when I do that. But 30" barrels where indeed cut down for the military and I believe $60.00 gets you a letter for your gun. If it confims what you suspect it will increase your guns value and if sold will return the cost. Besides it eliminates a lot of unnessessary questions.

[Chuckindenver]

not aware of any military issued riot or trench guns with an 18 inch barrel,
riot...will have the take down pin, and guide on the barrel for the clamp to help hold the barrel.
trench gun., will not have a take down pin or a guide attached to the barrel for the clamp, as the heatsheild and bayonet lug hold the tube in place.
trench gun will also have a swivle in the buttstock....and done by a machine, early models used a type used on the 1928 SMG, later used the same size used on a 1903 springfield, Krag ect,
many standard length 97,s were cut down by LE for riot guns, most were marked by what ever PD did this, check the bead,...if its tall and not centered,,,then not done by a gunsmith,,
if its so small you can barrely see it, and centered well, and set at 1/4 behind the muzzle then likley done by a gunsmith back when the gun was in service,
post a picture if you like that will help.