8x56R w Cast Bullet/Preliminary Results

[Beadwindow]

Greetings,

After months of visiting the site on a regular basis, I've finally started to go shooting regularly enough to post some relevant info and questions. During this latest day at the range I finally got to shoot my M95 Rifle and Carbine with my first attempts at bullet casting, with some success.

For reference, I learned the basics of bullet casting from Lee's "Modern Reloading; Second Edition" and the how-to articles on casting from surplusrifle dot com, in particular their article on producing #2 Alloy from wheel weights and tin solder. For starting loads I referred to the C.E. Harris article on military cast-bullet loads, stickied at the "Cast-Boolits" forum, and a specific thread there on loading 8x56R.

For my first try, I made up loads of 22gr H4198, 24gr IMR 3031 and 17gr of H4227, launching a gas-checked,lubed Lee 205gr bullet sized to .329 inch. Brass was Graf's/Prvi Partizan ordered from bcredneck dot com, with Win LR primers. I only picked up a caliper a few weeks ago and did not slug either bore beforehand, though it did not seem to end up being a problem with these rifles. As the Lee dies for 8x56R did not come with a crimp die, I excluded the step of belling the case mouth with their expander die before seating the bullets, which would have been preferred. I also did not have the use of my rifle rest and had to settle to shooting from a bench with my left hand resting atop of wooden blocks before practicing further from the sitting position.

Both rifles were fired with five rounds of each load from the bench at 50 yards. The 4198 loads were the most spread out, with the 4227 loads a little tighter, but surpassed by the IMR 3031 starting load of 24 grains. All were otherwise a pleasure to shoot. The M95 carbine began developing a hairline crack in the upper handguard beginning from the muzzle end and was put away after the initial testing at 50m, while the rifle was given a try at 100m benched. The trends continued with IMR 3031 performing the best by far. The loads shot to point of aim at 100m (bottom of the darker bullseye section of the target, some perhaps about 2-3 inches below centre with the sights on the lowest setting of 500 paces. I continued using up my H4198 loads in the sitting position, from which I'd miss about 1 in 5 shots at 100m, likely I believe on account of the lesser accuracy of that load.

Despite the lack of a proper rest to test with, and a recurring problem of the failure of the rifle to strip cartridges from the magazine usually around the fourth or fifth shot, the day was largely a success. The rifle grouped three rounds of the 3031 load into .84 inch at 50yrds with a flier spreading the group to 1.92 inches. At 100m, I managed four shots of the same load into 1.3 inches, with a flier spreading the group to 3.7 inches. I saved the last 10 rounds of this loading in case I'd get to use the rifle on small game like groundhogs or coyotes within 100m, and think that it has the greatest potential. Though the 4227 load has potential, and the H4198 might do better with filler, I plan on sticking with the 3031 load for now, and might one day reload up to 30gr for practice up to 200m and as a small, medium range game load. The only caveat I'd have about dissing the 4198 load is that they were all loaded with a different batch of bullets from my first attempt at casting, which might not be as consistent as the latter batch that I produces with less difficulty.

Just to close with a few comments about the rifles themselves, they were both arsenal refurbs with good bores, which were thoroughly cleaned beforehand to remove traces of copper. The sights were admittedly less than user friendly, though I have a new prescription for glasses that might factor into that. Trigger pull was comparable to but felt a bit better than on my Mosin 91/30. I'll withold final judgement until I figure out how to fix the feeding problem off of the stripper clips, but otherwise am happy to have paid the $210 for the two rifles as a pair.

With Regards,

Frank

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[Andy]

Great post Frank, and impressive results. None of the M95's I've shot have produced anywhere near the accuracy you got, and they all shot high - sometimes as high as a foot over the bull at 100 yds.

I have used mid-slow burn rate pistol powders (Unique to 2400) in my loads. Although I have the Lee 0.329" mold, I use it not for the M95, but for French guns in 8x50R Lebel, and some fat-bored Mausers (sized down as appropriate). The bores on my M95's are all greater than 0.329", some as high as 0.332", so I have used the Lee 338 mold and sized them down with a custom 0.332" sizer (again from Lee). With cast bullets, I use the largest diameter that I can chamber (the throat diameter being the limitation), and have gone as high as 0.004" over groove diameter.

But with your results, who needs my advice?

[Beadwindow]

Hi Andy, and thanks for the compliments!

Based upon the article by C.E. Harris, I'll probably pick up a can of 2400 in the future, though he also mentioned the powders that I had available and used for this exercise. I also need to get my new glasses, since my shooting tends to get a bit sloppier with practice, perhaps due to eye fatigue, and probably would have had greater difficulty replicating those two good groups with 3031 at the end of the day!

Have you ever had problems with the rifle refusing to strip rounds off of the stripper clip, or heard of a possible fix? I've tried numerous clips so they are not the problem, and would really like to see what the accuracy of my groups would be if I didn't have to take the rifle off my shoulder at some point in nearly every five round string.

As to the POI of these guns, it looks to me from the 50m groups that the carbine might shoot high at 100m, though the rifle averaged about 2" low at that range which could easily be adjusted for. I sure look forward to getting the carbine handguard fixed and seeing its potential, since with the lighter cast loads its really fun to shoot and carry.

With Regards,

Frank

[Claven2]

I'm no expert on these, but the Yugos did convert some of these to be able to feed without the clip. Any chance you possibly have one of the conversions?

[Beadwindow]

I'm no expert on these, but the Yugos did convert some of these to be able to feed without the clip. Any chance you possibly have one of the conversions?

It does not look like it, as the stripper clips feed into the magazine of both rifles and release after the last shot. The previous owner also fired ball ammo through it with the clips. The bolt usually just barely catches the rim of the cartridge, whereas on the third or fourth round, the cartridge does not sit high enough in the magazine to become engaged/stripped off by the bolt moving forward.

??????

With Regards,

Frank

[Andy]

The Yugos did a "M95M",and the Bulgarians and Greeks made essentially the same gun and designated it the M95/24. Both were in 8x57 and both used an internal (non-ejecting) clip. I'm not aware of any M95 in 8x56R that didn't use a clip.

As for the feeding problem, I've seen a gun that wouldn't feed the first one or two (due to a weak spring not being able to properly force up a full stack of rounds) but I have not experienced failure to feed the last one of two. Run through a few full clips and get accustomed to how a round is fed properly and then to try to see why the last one or two don't feed. You might have a weak spring that loses its strength when it's close to full extension. I might have a spare spring.

Andy

[Badger]

Great post Frank ....

Thank you.....

Regards,
Badger

[Beadwindow]

The Yugos did a "M95M",and the Bulgarians and Greeks made essentially the same gun and designated it the M95/24. Both were in 8x57 and both used an internal (non-ejecting) clip. I'm not aware of any M95 in 8x56R that didn't use a clip.

As for the feeding problem, I've seen a gun that wouldn't feed the first one or two (due to a weak spring not being able to properly force up a full stack of rounds) but I have not experienced failure to feed the last one of two. Run through a few full clips and get accustomed to how a round is fed properly and then to try to see why the last one or two don't feed. You might have a weak spring that loses its strength when it's close to full extension. I might have a spare spring.

Andy

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the tips..... I'll take a closer look at the rifle when I give her a thorough cleaning later in the week and might take her out again next weekend (since cycling rounds through the action in my Toronto apartment is strictly verboten). I'll let you know what I find.

[Beadwindow]

Hello again!

I've finally gotten a hold of a camera so that I can post some pics.

Here's my best 50yd group with my M95 last year (4 shots benched with 24gr of IMR 3031):



And here's that amazing group at 100m that I got with the same load from a sitting position, which is an unusually good group for me with any open sighted centerfire rifle (as in, I'd be really impressed if I can repeat it again, lol!):



And here's one more group that I fired last month from 50yds benched with 22gr of H4198, which generally seems to give less accuracy:



Shortly after firing this last group I gave up shooting the rifle for that day, since I was once more having trouble with cartridges failing to feed from the mag. I ordered a new spring for the rifle several months ago but will have to dig it up again so that I can install it before my next range session with this rifle. It has a considerably weaker spring tension compared to my carbine, but is otherwise a joy to shoot.