American Occupation of Germany & Austria: Police S&W Victory Revolvers

[Sleeplessnashadow]

I'm looking to contact anyone who has information on the S&W Victory revolvers (and 1911's...on 1911 forum) used by the West German police in the American Occupation Zone of Germany post WWII, or Austria post WWII.

I've been researching the U.S. .30 cal. carbines used by these agencies for about 7 years and have a web page at BavarianM1Carbines.com.

I'm preparing a display for the OGCA May 2010 meeting and a following NRA convention. I have acquired a dozen carbines and I'm looking to add a few of the Victory Revolvers and 1911's. After the NRA convention the entire display, guns included, will be donated to the NRA Museum to preserve this part of American history.

An Allied Control Council Directive in Nov 1945 stated the German police could be armed with non-German weapons with markings identifying the agency or type of agency and which Occupation area the agency was located in. In the American Occupation Zone they were armed with S&W Victory revolvers, 1911's, and M1 Carbines.

Areas within the American Occupation Zone in Germany:

Bavaria (marked in English w/type of agency)
-8725 revolvers and pistols, 14,647 carbines*

• Bavaria Border Police
• Bavaria Rural Police
• Bavaria Municipal Police
• Bavaria Forestry Police
• Bavaria Game Warden
• Bavaria Prison Guard

Berlin: American Sector (Berlin star on left side of frame at trigger guard, on carbines located on top of rear sight platform in front of rear sight)
-unknown quantities, carbines were issued 1960 and returned to U.S. Army 1966-1967.

Bremen Enclave (markings unknown)
-1721 revolvers and pistols, 1044 carbines*

Hessen (initials of Hessen and type of agency?)
-4590 revolvers and pistols, 2458 carbines*

• HE-M
• HE-LP?

Wurttemberg-Baden (initials of WB, type of agency, ...)
-4226 revolvers and pistols, 3743 carbines*

• WB-LP-0123 (Landpolizei)
• WB-S-MAN (Stadtpolizei Mannheim)
• WB-S-STG (Stadtpolizei Stuttgart)
• WB-S-other city initials
• possible single stag horn

Railway Police

• Railway Police Stuttgart
• Railway Police Nurnberg

Austrian Agencies

Bundesheer
Bundespolizei
Gendarmerie (circular Gendarmerie name and/or State)

• LGKB
• LGKK
• LKGNO
• LGKOO
• LGKSb
• LGKST
• LGKT
• LGKV

Zoll

• ZW or Zoll Wache

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to identify the markings used by the Bremen Enclave and Hessen. The HE-M is confirmed on the revolvers and some of the carbines.

Someone recommended John Holbrook. Hopefully he'll catch this and jump in here.

Jim
Jim@BavarianM1Carbines.com

*Quantities obtained from:

[OMGUS Civil Administration Division, Bad Nauheim, 08 Sep 1949, Semi-Annual German Police Personal & Equipment Report as of 30 Jun 1949]

[Bavaria Waffenamt inventory report to the OMGB Public Safety Branch 25 Apr 1948]

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[edlmann]

Railway Police Stuttgart
Railway Police Nurnberg

I have a .38-200 (the British Victory Model) in .38 S&W, 5" barrel, that is marked Railway Police Augsburg. U.S. markings otherwise.

[edlmann]

I have a .38-200 (the British Victory Model) in .38 S&W, 5" barrel, that is marked Railway Police Augsburg. U.S. markings otherwise.

ETA: Backstrap is stamped GRP, presumably for German Railway Police. The Augsburg marking is engraved on the left side of the frame.

[DAVEB47]

I have corresponded with John in the past in regards to my HE-M marked Victory and I can tell you he is a wealth of information. His research into these guns helps many people get a little insight to the history of them.

[Sleeplessnashadow]

Hi

I have several pages from a German book on the Bahndpolizei that briefly cover the Railway Police during the Occupation. It includes several interesting photographs. One is an officer with a K9 standing on the railway tracks, on his left side he has a handgun in a holster but it's hard to ID if it's a revolver. The officers is identified as Bahnpolizei Mannheim.

Another pic shows the staff of the Bahnpolizei school in Bavaria, which includes U.S. military personnel from the Office of Military Government, U.S. (OMGUS), in Bavaria.

If you'd like a copy of the 4 pages I have, I just need an address to send them too.

While my primary focus has been carbines, I try to include info on all of the American weapons used by the Germans during the Occupation in the American Zone. If you have a couple pictures showing the markings that you would not mind added to the page on the Railway police, I'd like to include them, giving credit for their source.

If you decide to sell the revolver, keep me in mind as I would be interested. I need a few for the display I'm working on.

Thanks

Jim
Jim@BavarianM1Carbines.com

[edlmann]

If you have a couple pictures showing the markings that you would not mind added to the page on the Railway police, I'd like to include them, giving credit for their source.

I'll work on that. Do you just want the German-unique markings?

If you decide to sell the revolver, keep me in mind as I would be interested. I need a few for the display I'm working on.

I hate to say "never", but it seems unlikely. Came from a step-uncle's estate. I was relieved to see that no one had cut the barrel off or rechambered to .38 Special. He was retired USAF, having served from early or pre-WWII to the early '70s, some of it in Europe. I suspect he may have picked it up there, but I really have no idea.

[Sleeplessnashadow]

Thanks. Family heirlooms with a history are important to hang onto. I appreciate the time and effort on the pics. The German markings in relation to where they are located on the revolver are what I'm looking to add to the website.

Jim
Jim@BavarianM1Carbines.com