Judging loads by studying the group

[Steve]

When you're working up handloads or checking factory loads and want to know how they group over a large number of shots (20, 30 or 50 for example), leave your original target attached to the frame but put successive targets directly overtop.

I never fire more than 5 shots at one paper so I remove the second (overlaid) target but have a cumulative total by leaving the original in place. The bottom target will have all the holes.

After I'm done, I simply draw a box around the group and measure the distance between the widest two lines. This gives me an accurate indication of how the ammunition performed. If more people did this, you wouldn't hear those silly statements like, "My rifle groups in the.2s consistently." Oh brother.

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[Rapidrob]

Steve your right on with your comments. I have read many times that shooters say they have Milsurps that will shoot .5" groups at the 200 meter range. Some will submit their targets for postal matches. What I find hard to beleave is that these rifle were designed to shoot 2-3 min of angle. Some of these rifles will only shoot minute of man. So how are they getting these " hall of fame" groups? You tell me.
I too take my time and try to keep the barrel temp the same for eash shot. I do still fire a couple of fouling shots to dirty the bore a little. I try to keep my cheak weld as constant as I can between shots. Lighting and wind are always a factor out here at our high altitude. If I do my part, sometimes I can shoot fair groups out to two hundred meters or more. Nice group you shot. What rifle?

[Oatmeal Savage]

Would 100 meters/yards be the minimum distance to check the grouping?

[Claven2]

It would be if you were shooting to determine your MOA as it is calculated at 100 yards.

[Craig67]

That's an excellent system, I'll give it a try next time I'm at the range.

Craig

[happydude]

I'm happy as long as the bullets are landing more or less where I aim. I'd rather match my ammo elevation wise to my sights than have half an inch groups. Then again, I'm not into precision shooting.

[John Lawson]

When a shooter displays a half MOA group from a rifle equipped with a standard military barrel, you should always check the target for powder burns.
Many of the mind-boggling hundred yard groups are, in fact, shot at one thousand inches.
I have also found that shooting off a bench rest is sometimes not conducive to as tight a group as shooting offhand, due to factors such as bag hop, differing sighting angles and restraint of natural muzzle rise. I would suggest that offhand shooting be steadied by proper use of the rifle's sling; that can often improve results beyond belief.
The proper response to "I can shoot half inch groups with my rifle" is: "Where did you find a hundred yard length of half inch water pipe to shoot through?"

[ganderite]

I have tested thousands of loads in hundreds of rifles. Most have been shot at the 200 yard range behind the house.

My observation from watching groups form is that a 5 shot group does not tell me much, unless it is a real big group - which means "This is not working".

many a time the first 5 has looked pretty good but by the time the last 5 are shot the group has opened up.


I prefer to load development on a Milsurp with a no gunsmithing scope or with good peep sights. A 2 minute group in a milsrp is a real good group. The only rifles I have ever found that will do better are Swedish mausers, but my eyes are no longer good enough for those open sights.

[Echo Bravo]

I use 10 shot groups to tell me if my load is good or not... I think it tells me way more than 5 does... in my precision rifle... I shoot them all at 200 or 300 yds... again to tell the whole story... my K98, CNo4, Ross, and K31 all get shot at 100 yds because I can't see the paper at 200!!

If I'm using a new powder and want to find the sweet spot in a powder load range, I'll use 5 rounds of each load. It's just more efficient to use 5 rounds every 0.5 grains to find where the 5 round groups are getting warm... then I confirm the range with 10 round groups...

all my milsurps will shoot 0.5MOA 2 or 3 shot groups... But that's pure BS luck!

EB

[andiarisaka]

The only problem I have with using more than 5 shots is the primer shortage. Unlike some, I only managed to stash away a couple thousand, thus I need to limit load development. Sometimes 5 is plenty to see the potential in a load. This photo is of a 5 shot cast bullet string from my 92/96 Krag which I've equipped with a Scout mount. The load was 12.5 gr of Blue Dot under a Belding and Mull 311169 bullet cast at about 23BHN. It's only going about 1250fps, fast enough for a 100 yard match while taking it very easy on my 114 year old rifle, which already has some stock cracks. Distance wasn't quite 100 yards, more like 85. My el cheapo scope has a bit of a parallax problem and I think the only difference between the 3 in the cloverleaf and the 2 touching less than an inch away was my cheek weld. I'd be pretty confident putting the 1901 sight back on it and shooting in a 100 yard match. I'd think any dispersion on the target was something I'd done and not the load. I wish the fellow that made the scout mount would open his website for business, I've blabbed it all over the internet, and it's still coming soon!