Kar98 Intel and Ammo Query

[nifkinsbridge]

Hi all,

I have a Kar98 that I was hoping you fine gentlemen could give me more background on.

I'm also hoping you can confirm the ammunition type. I think it's 8x57?

Here's what is stamped on the rifle.

LH side of receiver: Kar98

Breech: Erfurt 1917 w/ Crown above text

Barrel: Imperial Eagle and text BO/39 or BQ/39. I think it's BO.

Pics are here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Christop.../200910Oct02#3

Thanks!!!

Information

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[wbs2111]

KAR 98a with the upper hanguard ring ground off. As manufactured caliber 7.92x57, 8mm Mauser, 8x57 all names for the same cartridge.

[nifkinsbridge]

What's the difference between"

8mm Mauser

8mm x 57R

8mm x 57JRS

Would it still be just the 8mm Mauser for this Kar98?

KAR 98a with the upper hanguard ring ground off. As manufactured caliber 7.92x57, 8mm Mauser, 8x57 all names for the same cartridge.

[Patrick Chadwick]

8mm Mauser = common name for what is actually properly termed
8x57IS which is the same as
8x57JS (German often uses a J for a capital i to avoid confusion with a 1)
which is also often called
7.92x57 abroad. As you will shortly see, the 7.92 is incorrect.

BUT the dangerous confusion is that the original Gew88 used a cartridge designated 8x57I (or 8x57J) , no S.
I stood for Infantry.
The bore/groove dimensions were 7.80/8.07mm. Please note NOT 7.92.

This was upgraded to take a "Spitzer" bullet, hence the S.
The problem was, that the S bullet required larger bore/groove dimensions
namely 7.89/8.20mm. Please note once again NOT 7.92.
There was indeed a cartridge "7.92x33 kurz", used for the "Sturmgewehre" /machine pistols.

Firing S-type .323" / 8.20mm bullets down an original I-bore with 8.07mm groove diameter is therefore NOT A GOOD IDEA.

However, there are very few I-bores left, as the vast majority of Gew88s were converted from 1905 on, The adaptation is indicated by an S stamped on the barrel ring, towards the rear sight.

As to the designations with R: it's the same again, but the R simply indicates a rimmed cartridge. Rimmed 8x57IRS cartridges are quite common for hunting rifles. Once again, you are very unlikely to come across an IR type, unless you collect antique German hunting rifles.

Regardless of what anyone's micrometer might read. all the above dimensions are the official standard values from the "Masstafeln" of 10. Jan. 2000. Worn bores will, of course, show higher figures.

Patrick

[gunner]

Well said Patrick !!! Sometimes Mausers are not a easy stuff.

Regards

Gunner

[gandog56]

I thought all the "S" meant was it was the .323" bullet, not the original .318" bullet. "I' or "J" means infantry bullet.

[Patrick Chadwick]

gandog56, please read my previous posting carefully.

Summarizing, the whole mess arose because they introduced the new Spitzer bullet, and then changed the bore dimensions to fit the bullet!

Patrick

[jmoore]

Somewhat OT, but does the "7.92x33 Kurz" utilize 0.323" bullets or some other diameter? Always assumed they were just a light bullet, not smaller! Hate to pull an original round apart just for curiousity.

[Calif-Steve]

The"Kurz" round is a .323 bullet. This is meant for the Stg44.

[jmoore]

8mm Mauser = common name for what is actually properly termed
8x57IS which is the same as
8x57JS (German often uses a J for a capital i to avoid confusion with a 1)
which is also often called
7.92x57 abroad. As you will shortly see, the 7.92 is incorrect.

Patrick

I had this post in the back of my mind yesterday when I was rummaging though the ammo stash for some 7.62x54r, and all my surplus ammuntion in 8mm Mauser is labeled 7.92'something or another'. The only rounds marked "8mm" were in commercial ammo boxes. It seems the 6 or 7 countries producing the ammo for the troops called it 7.92mm (that I have examples of) , so what's the deal???