CLLE or N9

[Amatikulu]

Take the N.9 on both counts (collector and shooter) assuming they are all original. Despite what you've seen for sale in Germany, CLLE's are less rare.

[jmoore]

For shooting it would really depend on whether the CLLE has a good bore. Most I've seen are fairly washed out at the breech, if not being U/S the full length. That's why I don't own one yet! So---

N9! Unless.....

Dang. forgot I have a "Fancy Dan" target Long Lee but its not a CLLE, and its washed out too!

[Fred G.]

I've one CLLE and one MLE that have perfect bores with no wear at all. The other two are worn. However, I once had an early 1903 Springfield with an 05 dated barrel that had a Horrible bore that was deeply pitted. the pits would hold all sorts of fouling and it was a pain to clean. However at 100 yards, it would group three rounds in a perfect equalateral triangle that were not more than 1/4" apart. That's a 1/4" three shot group. with open sights using the No. 5 peep sight. One never really knows about a rifle's potential.

[jmoore]

Pitting isn't the drama that a slap shot out throat tends to be. the rest of the barrel may look fine, but it still won't shoot well. Cordite was particularly good at "burning out" barrels. Still, one never knows until its test fired!

Generally, though...

[Peter Laidler]

The N9's were supplied in by the Royal Navy in No4 form to P-H who converted them. So it stands that there could be all marks out there. However, I was informed by Colin Wren who was at the edges of the N9 50's project that because the barrels were to be re-sleeved, then rejected or rifles with condemned barrels were selected. I was also informed that while he KNEW about Mk1/2, 1/3 and 2 rifles, they didn't exist in the Navy at that time. That doesn't mean that they didn't exist of course. But bear in mind that the Navy were still using No1 rifles up until the 60's and were responsible for the purchase/acquisition of their own weaponry until it became the Ministry of Defence. And new build/FTR rifles were not a priority while there were still thousands of eminently serviceable rifles still in stock in their Armament Depots across the world.

Where were we......, Ah, yes N9 rifles. He was also a bit perplexed at the figure of 3,000 given that they were primarily for recruit training, competition and Sea Cadet Corps but how many of these existed. He obviously knew what he was talking about because he told me to disregard the public school CCF's because they were supplied by the Army in any case under an governmental agreement

[Alan de Enfield]

Where were we......, Ah, yes N9 rifles. He was also a bit perplexed at the figure of 3,000 given that they were primarily for recruit training, competition and Sea Cadet Corps but how many of these existed. He obviously knew what he was talking about because he told me to disregard the public school CCF's because they were supplied by the Army in any case under an governmental agreement

Was he perplexed in that he thought it was less or more than 3000 ?
On the 'other' N9 thread it was reported that the lowest 'known' number is A6 whilst the highest is A2640.
This would surely tie-in with a figure of 3000 (ish)

[Peter Laidler]

He says that he remembered it as being considerably less that 3,000. But I suppose mathematically, 2600 is 'considerably less' isn't it? And given that the conversion took place over several years, figures become a bit fizzy....., as they do over the intervening years too! But he was pretty accurate in what he said. I wish he was still with us now............ just when I need to pick his brains. God bless you Colin!

[5thBatt]

The s/n range i mentioned A6 to A2640 was the range at the auction, sorry to cause any confusion
A2640 was interesting as it still had the US PROPERTY marking.
Of all the N9s at the auction, I did not see any that were converted from a Mk2 or Mk1/2 or Mk1/3, I was looking for a Mk1/2 or Mk1/3.

[Peter Laidler]

That's a very interesting and astute observation of the auction rifles 5thBatt. It petty well confirms his theory that the rifles he authorised for conversion were the well used and tired Mk1's and Mk1*s.

He was also slightly wrong about the CCF's not having the N9 as my sons school CCF had some as I remember a Mk1* variant too. But these N9's were transferred over from a Navy Cadet wotsit closing down. The sad part is that I 'obtained' for his school Cadet Corps 8 .22" sub calibre conversion kits for their SA80's (only dads can do this for their sons school) and when the .22" kits were permanently installed into 8 donor rifles, the N9 rifles were disposed through the usual Ordnance channels. If only I'd given it a bit more thought........