Aftermarket upgrades S&W Model 59 ?

[Alfred]

I have a early production S&W Model 59 thats in excellent condition, but I'm not satisfied with its accuracy or handling qualities.

If anyone here has knowledge of any good quality and effective upgrades for this type pistol let me know.

Any alterations I'd want to make would be easily reversable.

I'm mainly looking for an extended aftermarket barrel and compensator or slide extension combo, and a replacement backstrap that would fill the hand better than the 2X4 OEM which to me feels more like a table leg than a pistol grip.

I have read that these early production M59 pistols did not show much in the way of accuracy, and I suspect that they are ammunition sensitive. So if you have suggestions on any brand or bullet type that offers better results with these guns I'd like to hear about it.

My favorite load when I carried a P-35 was the old SuperVel truncated cone hollow point. If theres a modern equivalent let me know.

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[Stevo]

IMO, the best upgrade would be to buy a new pistol. Don't get me wrong, I like the old S&W autos, I have 3. However, they are dated so I don't imagine there's very much still available for them for aftermarket "upgrades". If you want a target pistol, you're better of getting one, instead of trying to turn an old service pistol into one.

Novak used to do custom work on the Smiths, I don't know if they still do.

[Alfred]

IMO, the best upgrade would be to buy a new pistol. Don't get me wrong, I like the old S&W autos, I have 3. However, they are dated so I don't imagine there's very much still available for them for aftermarket "upgrades". If you want a target pistol, you're better of getting one, instead of trying to turn an old service pistol into one.

Novak used to do custom work on the Smiths, I don't know if they still do.

Selling it isn't something I'd want to do because I got it from a close friend many years ago and it has sentimental value. Its also in such great shape for a pistol this old, one of the best condition used guns I've ever owned.

I'd seen aftermarket thread barrels for these at Numrich for a reasonable price but they sold out before I got a chance to order one.
The basic action type has been around for many years and most of S&W's autoloaders are based on it, so there should be cross over parts that fit several later models and still fit the early model.

I'm not interested in making a target pistol from it, I just prefer a bit better accuracy and a feel in the hand conducive to more rapid aquisition and shot to shot consistency. An extended barrel with compensator would shift the balance a bit forwards, and make up for its grip heavy center.

I do prefer the P-35 and have a NAZI marked WW2 bringback here I'll probably trade the owner out of. Its one he found among his father in law's belongings while settling the estate.

I'd prefer to do any work on the pistol myself, I just need to know where to look for the parts.
The barrel and back strap, or a back strap I can modify to suit my hand, and any upgrades for the trigger mechanism.
I don't want to make any permanent alterations, so I can put it back in original trim later on.

A long slide conversion would be nice, better sight radius that way.

[Emri]

There are no aftermarket items available for the 59. The "market" for them ended many years ago.

FWIW,

Emri

[jmoore]

I'm a "Smith" guy too, and the best I can tell you is to leave it alone! No aftermarket stuff available except maybe some sights (the old MMC's were OK) and grips, which generally feel worse than the originals! Barrels, well....IF you can find an old BAR-STO go for it, otherwise- RUN AWAY! Same w/ mags, stick to original. You might try slipping a piece of innertube over the grip for improved retention.

BTW As a rough rule w/ centerfire Smith autos (EXCEPT the model 52) made before about 10 years ago- if its reliable, its not accurate. If its accurate, its not reliable.

[Alfred]

Well the only problem I have with the feel of the grip isn't due to the grip panels, but rather the backstrap.
I'll probably just get a replacement backstrap and alter it to suit my hand.
Due to an injury few auto pistols fit my hand well. Only reason I don't get another 1911 is because the grip safety often doesn't disengage with my normal grip.

The gun is in fine shape and seems to lock up as tight as one would hope for.
The trigger pull may be one source of less than stellar accuracy, they seem to have all been a bit less than desireable.


I don't have a lot in the gun, considering its condition, so I win either way. I leave it stock and its worth two or three times what I got in it ( it was thrown in on a car trade) or if I did find parts I wanted the extra cost wouldn't be so hard to bear.

This isn't a carry gun, I have lots better pieces for that purpose, its more a home defense or outdoors companion. Nothing more dangerous than Black Bear here so its adequate, and the high capacity would come in handy for feral dog packs, one such pack actually ate a stranded motorist about sixty miles from here years ago, and a child's face was torn off by a stray pit bull only a few miles from here.

I'd like to be sure of optimum shot placement just in case I had to drop an animal while it was attacking someone else, without endangering the victim.

I have two very good S&W hi cap mags and one ten shot ramline, the last is a piece of crapola.
I'm not interested in any higher capacity mags.

I figure the barrels themselves should be okay, but may shoot better with a particular brand.
Any suggestions on the most accurate available 9mm for these would be a great help.

[Stevo]

9mm "adequate" for black bear? They must be pretty small in your area. If an animal is in the process of attacking a person the only way you could be sure of "optimum" shot placement is to get on right on top of it at contact distance. Shooting into a swirling furball of animal and victim is exceedingly difficult, regardless of how accurate your pistol is.

The only way to find the most accurate ammo for your pistol is to shoot different types/brands. What shoots well in another 59 may not shoot as well in your gun.

[Alfred]

9mm "adequate" for black bear? They must be pretty small in your area.

Average adult around 160 lb, though I was charged by one that probably was well over three hundred lb. Small adults go around 90 lb.
A 160 Lb Blackie roamed through my yard several years back, they caught it in a tree near here the next day, within sight of the local high school parking lot.
Black bear can get around six hundred + lb, but thats very uncommon here.
They are commonly put down with pistols.
Local tribes used to demand that Black bear only be killed by clubbing them, they were considered to be cowards and unworthy of other weapons.
The skulls aren't as adamantine as those of larger bears, so a head shot should drop one if you have good penetration.
A head that broad and a brain that small makes putting the bullet in the right spot very important.
The grandfather of a friend took dozens using a .32-20 pistol. He'd trick or force the bear to stand on its hind legs and shoot them square in the heart.

Some of my ancestors are mentioned in Davy Crockett's journals, he used to go bear hunting with them. The Kentucky rifles they used had about the same velocity and bullet weight as a 9mm pistol.

If shot placement is good the 9mm can take a Blackie, just spraying lead isn't likely to be productive. Which is why I'd like to improve the pistol's potential accuracy.

If an animal is in the process of attacking a person the only way you could be sure of "optimum" shot placement is to get on right on top of it at contact distance. Shooting into a swirling furball of animal and victim is exceedingly difficult, regardless of how accurate your pistol is.

Good points.
But when large animals get a human down they are often on the human's chest or back holding them down and working on head or neck, the victim is already out of the fight and seconds count.
A back pack can slow a bear down but those attacks I've looked into usually have the bear knocking the victim off his feet, usually face down, and then worrying at the head and neck, or dragging the victim away by the head.
They aren't very efficient killers. They sometimes call them cows with claws.

The back of a bear's head is vulnerable, trapped Grizz have been dispatched with a .22 rimfire, so a 9mm to the back of the head or the upper spine should stop even a large blackie quickly.

The only way to find the most accurate ammo for your pistol is to shoot different types/brands. What shoots well in another 59 may not shoot as well in your gun.

Thats true enough, but starting off with a short list of ammo types that have proven efficient in the barrels of a particular type of pistol would cut down greatly on the time and expense of finding an adequate load.
I don't intend to handload for the 9mm.

If the rifling and barrel length or other characteristics of the mass produced barrel contribute to lesser accuracy, finding a load thats less effected by any quirks of manufacture would be the first step.

[mack]

As an owner and once-upon-a-time user of the Models 39 and 59 S&W, I respect and like the handguns, first of all. But, under no circumstances would I consider using, much less modifying, such a classic firearm with the express purpose of carrying those forth to dispatch feral dogs or blackbear.

Why would you modify the pistol when, for the amount of money spent on such alterations, you could obtain a decent larger caliber pistol? There is no logic in such an expenditure of either time or effort. You ruin a pretty nice collector piece and still don't have an adequate sidearm. Seems like a lose-lose situation. Spend the $400 on a good used Ruger pistol in a .357-44 Mag and get the job done right.

Remember, older shooters were limited by their choices in firearms and may, out of necessity, been forced to face a bear with something so anemic as a .32-20. Not so today. If you are approaching a bear today with less than a proper firearm, then you are deserving of the obituary they will write for you. Something like "Man mauled to death by bear; went to bear fight with too little gun." Seriously, why would you risk injury or possible death for the sake of spending a few hundred dollars to have a serviceable and safe advantage in any kind of fight?

I have seen a few mad bears in my time and there is simply no way you can be sure that all that collective wisdom will do you any good when one of those "cows with claws" decides to chase you down and make dinner out of your thigh or arm. I have seen them fight dogs (pretty damned efficient killers themselves) and bears can rip up a pack of dogs faster than a lot of hunters can fetch their rifles and kill the thing. I have seen the blacks bite softball-sized pieces of meat and bone off a hundred pound dog and never miss a beat. Personally, I wouldn't go after one with less than a .44 Mag or one of the jumbo calibers. I have known people who were experts that used 9 MM to dispatch wounded bear, but never to hunt them.

[Alfred]

As an owner and once-upon-a-time user of the Models 39 and 59 S&W, I respect and like the handguns, first of all. But, under no circumstances would I consider using, much less modifying, such a classic firearm with the express purpose of carrying those forth to dispatch feral dogs or blackbear.

Why would you modify the pistol when, for the amount of money spent on such alterations, you could obtain a decent larger caliber pistol? There is no logic in such an expenditure of either time or effort. You ruin a pretty nice collector piece and still don't have an adequate sidearm. Seems like a lose-lose situation. Spend the $400 on a good used Ruger pistol in a .357-44 Mag and get the job done right.

Remember, older shooters were limited by their choices in firearms and may, out of necessity, been forced to face a bear with something so anemic as a .32-20. Not so today. If you are approaching a bear today with less than a proper firearm, then you are deserving of the obituary they will write for you. Something like "Man mauled to death by bear; went to bear fight with too little gun." Seriously, why would you risk injury or possible death for the sake of spending a few hundred dollars to have a serviceable and safe advantage in any kind of fight?

I have seen a few mad bears in my time and there is simply no way you can be sure that all that collective wisdom will do you any good when one of those "cows with claws" decides to chase you down and make dinner out of your thigh or arm. I have seen them fight dogs (pretty damned efficient killers themselves) and bears can rip up a pack of dogs faster than a lot of hunters can fetch their rifles and kill the thing. I have seen the blacks bite softball-sized pieces of meat and bone off a hundred pound dog and never miss a beat. Personally, I wouldn't go after one with less than a .44 Mag or one of the jumbo calibers. I have known people who were experts that used 9 MM to dispatch wounded bear, but never to hunt them.

I said nothing about Hunting bears, if you had read my post you'd have seen that I said.

This isn't a carry gun, I have lots better pieces for that purpose, its more a home defense or outdoors companion. Nothing more dangerous than Black Bear here so its adequate, and the high capacity would come in handy for feral dog packs, one such pack actually ate a stranded motorist about sixty miles from here years ago, and a child's face was torn off by a stray pit bull only a few miles from here.

I'd like to be sure of optimum shot placement just in case I had to drop an animal while it was attacking someone else, without endangering the victim.

Bear attacks are extremely rare, too rare around here to warrant packing a hand cannon everywhere you go in the woods.
I've seen plenty of bear, and one strolled through my back yard before I put up a better fence, they roam alot.
Feral dogs are a much worse problem, they are fairly numerous at times, and I've run into a pack of a dozen or more. A hi cap 9mm would be good medicine.
The nine has plenty of penetrating power, the local black bears are no forest giants, but are more than capable of killing an unarmed man. About like a 160 pound dog, my Bulgarian herd dog weighed 130 pounds till recently and has jaws more impressive than those of a black bear. My Plot hound/pit bull mix weighed over 110 and once bit a cow's spine in half with one bite, the spine came from a butchers shop. His head was near the size of a black bears and his teeth were much larger.
A feral dog killed several cows here over the course of three weeks and only stopped when fatally wounded by a bull he'd attacked. By all accounts that dog looked like the hound of the baskervilles on steroids.

If you'd noticed I also said I did not want to make any permanent alterations, only easily reversable ones.

The pistol is an early production, but certainly not obsolete, several of my handguns were made before 1930, and those do the job they were made for as well today as when new.
I prefer the older model rear sight.

The most recent local fatal bear attack follwed the general pattern, two kids and their mother, the bear attacked one kid, the mother drove it away, the other child ran away, before rescuers found the second child the bear had gotten it. A bystander fired several rounds from a .380 at the bear but apparently missed, the bear broke off its attack but the child did not survive.

As I said I'd like to be sure of optimal shot placement in the event I happened upon a bear attacking someone else. I'd also like to be sure of dropping multiple large feral dogs with rapid aimed fire, and having 15 shots ready to rock would be a comfort, since dog packs can be a dozen or more, no time to reload a wheelgun.
A pit bull in a nearby town was hit in the head by a 38 special, but not at the proper angle. I saw the video on that one, the dog was still standing only slightly dazed a half hour later, and would have likely survived if not put down. One of the bystanders said the dog was a demon from hell, to survive getting shot in the head.

I've studied the construction of the black bear skull and I know where I can study a stripped skull close at hand. Ive looked that skull over before, I have no doubt that a 9mm will reach the brain case from almost any angle. The bones are fairly thick but I've put 9mm through both doors of a 59 plymouth, including windows and internal bracing, I doubt the skull is any tougher than that much Detroit iron.

Even with an average hunting rifle a body shot can fail unless you hit the heart or sever the spine, shot placement is paramount.
A victim trapped under a bear would be much the same situation as a hostage being used as a shield. Turn the bad actor off like a light switch without hitting the hostage or the bullet going through the BA at an angle that would endanger the hostage.