You find interesting NON-gun items at gunshows, too!!

[Rick the Librarian]

I attended the big WAC show in Puyallup WA yesterday. Although I was tempted by a couple of firearms I saw, the only major thing I picked up with this group shot, obviously taken in the WWI-era, of a large group of Marines. There was no caption, nor did the seller know anything about the origins. The framed picture measures 32"x7".

1) Note the background of palm branches - possibly a tropical clime or even San Diego? Marines were stationed in Haiti, Guam, and the Philippines, to name a few places. My uncle was with the Marines in Guam and the Philippines at this time.

2) Note the mixture of M1903s and M1917s.









...and a closeup of the Marines in the front row, showing the "mix" of rifles:

Information

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[Jeff L]

Nice find Rick. I thought one of them had a C stock, than I got to the bottom pic and realized it was an M1917. I wouldn't have wanted to tangle with those guys. How about Hawaii? If you took it out of the frame, it might reveal some clues (written on the back or the front edge).

-Jeff L

[Rick the Librarian]

The frame appears to be permanently fastened. unfortunately, along with a cover glass (which is not cracked or broken).

[Jim Tarleton]

That picture must have been taken at Mare Island or Port Royal, as the Marines only used the M1917's at training installations and that only after WWI. MCRD San Diego didn't open until 1948, but it could be a later picture than WWI. What makes it interesting is that it is a Company size unit, and Marines are trained in Platoons. My guess is Mare Island or Port Royal, post WWI.

Great picture, as it clearly shows Marines used the M1917 (Bolobadge was right on). I have a copy of "Quantico: Crossroads of the Marine Corps", which I think is where I read that Marines did use the M1917 to train recruits post WWI, but yours is the first picture I have seen with Marines and the M1917. I have pictures of the 11th and 13th Regiments at Quantico in 1918, and not one M1917 is to be seen, as both Regiments deployed with M1903's. The 5th and 6th Regiments deployed with their M1903's. Since the Marines deployed with the rifles they would use in France, they didn't train with the M1917 during WWI, only after. Marines didn't deploy unarmed.

The Marines trained recruits with the M1917 and the M1903 after WWI until the official choice was made for the service rifle. They even made a rear sight with a windage adjustment, but I have never seen a picture of one. To my knowledge, no Marine unit was ever armed with the M1917 (except MCRD's).

Jim

[deserttrans]

Great find and pic...... I sure would have snatched it up. USMC 68-76

[Rick the Librarian]

Jim.

I was hoping you would comment. Bruce Canfield has a picture of an experimental M1917 rear sight with windage adjustment, in his book on U.S. WWI weapons. If there is interest, maybe I can get Bruce's permission to post them.

[rondog]

I sure hope all those rifles are unloaded, muzzle control seems to be lacking a little!

[Jim Tarleton]

Jim.

I was hoping you would comment. Bruce Canfield has a picture of an experimental M1917 rear sight with windage adjustment, in his book on U.S. WWI weapons. If there is interest, maybe I can get Bruce's permission to post them.

Rick,

That is a "Missing Link" picture. Now if you can only find a picture of the Marines fighting at Belleau Wood with EGA's on their helmets. You have no idea how long I have searched for a picture like the one you found (along with Bolobadge). We knew one had to exist, but just couldn't find it. I wish we all knew the history of the picture. Those palm tree looking things in the background must be for effect, because I can't find anything like them in any of my old photos of MCRD's. It is obviously a unit picture, most likely recruits, but a good size group. Can you see a Sergeant(s) in the picture?

A really nice find, Rick. I hope someone can identify it definitively. When I first saw it, I immediately thought of MCRD San Diego, which would be post 1923. From 1818 to 1912, Marine recruits were trained at Marine Barracks, Washington, DC. Starting in 1911, pre-WWI MCRD's were Mare Island which is very near San Francisco, Puget Sound, Washington, Port Royal, SC (1915), Norfolk, Virginia, and Philadelphia, Pa. Puget Sound was shut down in 1912, Norfolk and Philadelphia in 1915, and Mare Island in 1923 when MCRD San Diego opened. That leaves Mare Island or MCRDSD and Port Royal (Parris Island) for post WWI. San Francisco is too cold for palm trees, so it is either MCRD SD or MCRD PI. I was at PI and they do have palm trees, but those look like those plants that grow alongside the road in SC that my old brain can't name at the moment.

Montford Point was an MCRD during WWII, but only trained black Marines.

Anything written on the back of the picture?

Jim

[joem]

Nice find Rick. I'd have bought it.

[Rick the Librarian]

The picture is permanently mounted to the frame with a black cover on the back. The front is glassed in. There doesn't appear to be an easy way of getting the back off.

The guy had another pictures for sale of a smaller group (maybe 2/3 of those in the picture above), all standing at attention with rifles at order arms. I could only afford one and I picked this one, because you could see more of the rifles. The other picture showed only the bottom of the rifles.