Khyber Pass build?

[bearhunter]

If it is, it certainly is one of the best I've seen. I've seen several other Khyber Pass rifles and pistols and only a very few were of this quality. It is very accurate and the bore is sharp and bright. I've taken pics of all the markings and basically the whole rifle.

Any feedback confirming that this is, or isn't a Khyber Pass build?

Information

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[TheDoubleD]

First impression this is an original Martini action, commercial or military. Looking closer at details it's a obvious counterfiet. Feed trough not cut properly and to shallow. Rear action at butt socket tapered wrong. But one look at the rear of the receiver makes it pretty pretty clear this is a Khyber gun and one to steer clear of.

Set aside the crude thumbrest, the top of the knuckle seat is cut to low. Scarry low.

I would worry that the knuckle seat would fail and the breech block would pop out.

If you shoot this gun you need to be very very careful with it.

[bearhunter]

Double D, I've actually put quite a few rounds through this rifle. I've also had it side x side with with a bona fide genuine rifle. I've had it magnafluxed and there is no sign of any fracturing.
It shoots minute of gopher out to 100yds, if I do my part. It's taken 2 deer, admittedly at less than 50 yards.

The chamber is tight enough that there is minimal case stretch and hardly any expansion ring, almost imperceptible. The bore has no visible signs of wear. The bore slugs out to .311 and hasn't any loose spots in it when cleaned with a tight patch. It doesn't seem to foul quickly either.

The whole rifle is very well finished and the craftsman must have taken great care and pride to produce this rifle. I have no idea what the grade of steel is but it is standing up very well to ammunition loaded to 43,000 psi. I don't plan on shooting it any more. Maybe with cast loads but that's it. My reason for not shooting it isn't fear of failure related. I just don't want to put any more wear on it than necessary.

I've been offered $500 for it, by people that seem to know what they're doing. Consensus is that it may have been made in the fifties. The craftsmanship and finish are evidence of a skilled individual and the heat treating is more than likely on the same scale as on the original British rifles were, maybe even better. Their working conditions may be atrocious but their skill is evident.
It's reputed that many of the parts and receivers are made from truck and tractor axles, which would made of good, tough steel that can be properly finished and heat treated.

[TheDoubleD]

It's reputed that many of the parts and receivers are made from truck and tractor axles, which would made of good, tough steel that can be properly finished and heat treated.

This sums it up quite nicely. It is also said they are made from old rail road iron.

Rationalize all you want, the bottom line is this rifle and al KP's are an unknown quantity. You should finish each rationalization with the statement "so far".

It is far safer to stay with a gun with a known pedigree.

It's kind of like playing the lottery, you can't win unless you play, but this is one lottery you don't want to win.

I am sorry to be so negative. The chances of an accident are slim. But there have been recent reports of failure of these guns. It's just not worth chance.

[jamie5070]

has enyone thought of modifying kyber pass rifle into a .22? I always felt they would be safe for that.
john

[TheDoubleD]

Why bother, why take the chance, there are plenty of real and known guns to work with.

Doing anything with these guns creates a false sense of safety and legitimacy.

If you have one of these guns and change it to something "safer" after all the warnings about them, and something happens to the gun and some one is injured, you carry the liability for failing to use due care. Even after the rifle is passed down the line.

I have been a gunsmith for over 25 years. A long time ago while going to college I learned that things like due care follow you for ever. If 25 years ago I built a rifle on a low number Springfield and the action failed to day, despite having fired thousands of rounds in the interim period of time, because I failed to heed the warning about these actions I am still liable for the damage because I failed to use due care in using that action.

If I had a customer who brought me a low number Springfield action and I turned him away and he had another Gunsmith build on the action, I could be used to show the Customer was aware and failed to use due care, and he could be held liable for failing to use due care.

These KP guns are no different. The warnings are out there. If I tell you it's safe to build on this gun, you could use me as a defense and I could be held liable, marginally but still liable.

Just because the gun has held up so far is meaningless. This gun may never break, that's your good. It could break next week. Given the guns unknown pedrigee and the fact that lots of known pedigree guns are out there, it's just not reasonable to take the chance.

[topaz]

bearhunter, I know this is a little to late and i`m new to the forum and I just happen to read your story .But I like to say you go an have fun with your rifle.For a matter of fact those people (KP)have been making weapons for hundreds of years. I say if your happy with that gun and it shoots good and you had it tested and its safe. Well that all that matters.

[browningautorifle]

I just find these guns interesting. I would want to have it beside the English ones as an example of variant.

[Badger]

For anyone who may have missed it ...

With thanks to member Steve H. in N.Y., we've added a new entry to the England - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here)

“Khyber Pass” Lee-Enfield No.I Mk.III* Rifle (click here)

Article extract …..

The Khyber Pass is a border region between Afghanistan and Pakistan known for it’s local weapons industry, notably the often crude manufacture of copies of well known firearms including Lee-Enfield rifles. These “KP Special” Enfields were fairly rare here in the USA until 2007 when a quantity were imported, then they turned up in dealers’ racks and on several web sites. Unfortunately, the rifles were not always advertised as what they really were with their false markings, dubious quality and general unsuitability for firing live ammunition.

Samples from 30 picture photo montage …

(Click PIC to Enlarge)(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Regards,
Badger

[topaz]

As a collector of arms I agree. There are plenty of examples we have yet to find and enjoy. This is one of them. Keep hunting and looking for that treasure.