I'm confused - 1905 & 1906 Bayonets..??

[Mike Haas]

I've got a 1905 PAL dated 42, 16" (uncut) with Brown Plastic grips and nice M3 Scabbard.
My buddy has a 1906 SA serial 83504 with wooden grips
I'm puzzled because the 1906 is obviously an earlier Bayo (circa 1918??) and my 1905 is WW2 (circa 1942). One would think the model 1905 would have preceded the 1906??

Information

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[browningautorifle]

1905 is the model and both bayonets are the same model. The SA 1906 was a model 1905 made in 1906. Walnut scales are correct for that one. Brown plastic(rare)are correct for the 1942 issue. By the way, got pics?

[Mike Haas]

1905 is the model and both bayonets are the same model. The SA 1906 was a model 1905 made in 1906. Walnut scales are correct for that one. Brown plastic(rare)are correct for the 1942 issue. By the way, got pics?

I'll post pics later this week. Another two questions, if the SA 1906 was made in 1906 does that mean that subsequent models are stamped 1907-08-ete? Walnut "scales"?? What does that mean??
Thx for the clarification.

[JBS]

Scales = grips or grip panels

[browningautorifle]

They stampped the blade on one side with the year, ordnance bomb and the company of manufacture. The other side is marked US and the serial number. Early blades were bright but after a point they were parkerized. In the beginning only Springfield and Rock Island Armory made them, but for the second war another nine or so started producing. In 1942 they made long blades but after the feedback came from the troops the blades were either cut short or manufactured short. All of this info is given in detail in books by Canfield or Duff or Brophy to name a few, but that's the nutshell. I still would like a look when you get around to it.

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

Mike,

I have all the M.H. Cole books and the "Best Of" re-edited by Mike Silvey

Here is what I found in Cole's book #3, hope it helps.

Jim



BAYONET MODEL 1905

The M. 1905 bayonet has a 16" blade and walnut handles. It fits the M-1903 Springfield and M1 garand rifles. These bayonets will be found dated 1906 through 1922. the early dates from 1906 up to 1917 had a bright polished blade. With the hilt and guard and about 3/16" of the blade blued. Starting with the 1917 date all of the metal was parkerized through the 1922 date. On occasion some of the early dates will be found with a blue or parkerized finish. These are thought to have been arsenal refinished. Stamped on the reverse S.A./bomb/and date on the obverse is stamped U.S. over a serial number. This same bayonet was made at Rock Island Arsenal and stamped R.I.A./over bomb/& date.

It shows sketches also of the scabbards.
Type #1 had a short metal throat on leather body stamped R.I.A./1906 J.N.S.

Type #2 had a long metal throat on leather body stamped R.I.A. /1907 H.E.K.

Model 1905 modified Scabbard stamped R.I.A./1907 F.P.B.

Model 1910 Scabbard marked BoyT it had a canvas body with a leather tip.

Model 1910 Scabbard type No. 2 scabbard shows a deeper throat into the canvas body.

BAYONET MODEL 1942

Bayonet model 1942 was essentially the same bayonet as the M-1905. The main difference being a change from wooden to plastic grips which were usually black. But some are redish brown color. These bayonets were not made at the U.S. arsenals but by different contractors and were certainly not as well made and finished as the previous arsenal made bayonets. They were stamped with the makers name or mark, over an ordnace bomb, U.S. over the date of manufacture such as 1942-1943. The M3 scabbard made of olive green plastic was issued with bayonet.

Sketches show different makers markings, OL, U.F.H., PAL, WT, AFH, UC.

Later it talks about the:

Bayonet M.1905E1 which were modified 1905 & 1942 bayonets.

In late 1942 it was decided to cut 6" from the existing bayonets thus making a 10" blade. Some were ground to a Spear point and some to a Bowie type point

[Mike Haas]

Mike,

I have all the M.H. Cole books and the "Best Of" re-edited by Mike Silvey

Here is what I found in Cole's book #3, hope it helps.

Jim



BAYONET MODEL 1905

The M. 1905 bayonet has a 16" blade and walnut handles. It fits the M-1903 Springfield and M1 garand rifles. These bayonets will be found dated 1906 through 1922. the early dates from 1906 up to 1917 had a bright polished blade. With the hilt and guard and about 3/16" of the blade blued. Starting with the 1917 date all of the metal was parkerized through the 1922 date. On occasion some of the early dates will be found with a blue or parkerized finish. These are thought to have been arsenal refinished. Stamped on the reverse S.A./bomb/and date on the obverse is stamped U.S. over a serial number. This same bayonet was made at Rock Island Arsenal and stamped R.I.A./over bomb/& date.

It shows sketches also of the scabbards.
Type #1 had a short metal throat on leather body stamped R.I.A./1906 J.N.S.

Type #2 had a long metal throat on leather body stamped R.I.A. /1907 H.E.K.

Model 1905 modified Scabbard stamped R.I.A./1907 F.P.B.

Model 1910 Scabbard marked BoyT it had a canvas body with a leather tip.

Model 1910 Scabbard type No. 2 scabbard shows a deeper throat into the canvas body.

BAYONET MODEL 1942

Bayonet model 1942 was essentially the same bayonet as the M-1905. The main difference being a change from wooden to plastic grips which were usually black. But some are redish brown color. These bayonets were not made at the U.S. arsenals but by different contractors and were certainly not as well made and finished as the previous arsenal made bayonets. They were stamped with the makers name or mark, over an ordnace bomb, U.S. over the date of manufacture such as 1942-1943. The M3 scabbard made of olive green plastic was issued with bayonet.

Sketches show different makers markings, OL, U.F.H., PAL, WT, AFH, UC.

Later it talks about the:

Bayonet M.1905E1 which were modified 1905 & 1942 bayonets.

In late 1942 it was decided to cut 6" from the existing bayonets thus making a 10" blade. Some were ground to a Spear point and some to a Bowie type point

OK - If I got this right then my friends bayo is a 1905 made by SA in 1906 which is actually the 1st year of production; the serial # then would the sequential # for his bayo in 1906. His handles (scales) appear to walnut and almost worn smooth. He doesn't have a scabbard.
My '42' UFH with M3 is now clear to me.

browningautorifle - I'll post pictures on this thread late this weekend or early next week.

Thanks for the imput!

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

Mike,

You mention Pal in your first post and UFH in the last one. Do you have two of these?

Cole's book shows serial numbers in the sketches. But it doesn't say if they are highest for that year or just the example he had seen, they are sequential, guessing highest.

S.A.
1906-108913
1907-202698
1908-348064
1909-413979
1910-433686
1911-489214
1912-522358
1913-553574
1914-596722
1915-610658
1916-646865
1917-679323
1918-1009248
1919-1045130
1920-1133202
1921-1185016
1922-1195433

R.I.A.
1906-no number
1907-102099
1908-136401
1909-165703
1910-177503
1911-193454
1913-238285
1917-284204
1918-304674
1919-404830
Some years missing for R.I.A. it doesn't say if they were not produced those year.

[jason43050]

Hi guys, 1st time guest here.
I have a bayonet, it says S A i guess its a bomb symbol then 1906 on one side. the other side says : US 140072.
It has a 16" blade. It's 20 3/4" from blade tip to bottom of handle. Looks to be a wal-nut handle. The scabbard i guess thats what everyone is calling it, the case or the thing you put the bayonet away in. It's like a rawhide/leather? covering wood.copper looking top with 2 rivits in it. I'll have to get some pictures of it on here. I was wanting to know some information on it. Maybe some history on it, was it used in a war? How much it might be worth? My Grandmother found it in a barn in Ohio. Any info would be appreciated. Jason Burris

[old-smithy]

goto US Military Knives Bayonets Machetes there are lots of articles giving all the info you want but price, for that have a look at EBAY to compare yours with others for sale, condition etc. is very important and can make a huge difference on value