Sniper rifles of India

[tower06]

Here's a question I can't seem to find an answer on. Did India field any enfield type sniper rifles during any wars. If so, we they home grown, or British issue? I've always been curious about this.

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[arado]

I have an RFI "T". Made in 1962 from a British "T". I do not have the 32 for it. The rifle is correct in every detail. From the T and TR to the small "s" No number 51 on butt stock. Whoops, not every detail. The safety lever is Lb. I acquired rifle from Springfield Sporters many years ago. It's history is unknown. All I have is questions. Any new info. gary

[jmoore]

This ought to be a really interesting topic...I'm ready to learn more!!!

[tower06]

This ought to be a really interesting topic...I'm ready to learn more!!!

I thought so, especially since I have not seen it addressed before.

[bearhunter]

I've brought the subject up before on this board.

Finding out about Indian No4 MkI T rifles is tough. Much of it is hearsay and very little has been published about them.

I don't know if the Indians used sniper rifles during WWII but I can't see why not.

I do know that at one time the UK sold them a bunch of T rifles with the No32 MkI scopes. I have no idea what condition the rifles/scopes were in.

I have a No4 MkI T rifle that is supposed to be Indian issue. It has been perused by a knowledgeable person that frequents this board. I sent him pics etc. I was worried about the scope bracket's authenticity. He described the bracket and verified the type.

The Indian military, used the No4 MkI T for a long time, then passed them onto the police. There doesn't seem to be any way to verify their history. I was talking to a fellow in Vancouver who claimed to be an armorer in the Indian army. He told me the rifles were in high demand but were mostly in poor repair. He also told me that they did whatever was necessary to keep them going. Spare parts were few and far between. They mixed and matched as needed to keep the rifles functional.

The rifle I have is in a transit chest that looks correct, it has a round edge scope can and a beat up old leather sling. The sling is in fair only condition but is still serviceable. The bracket is unique to the Indian rifles and the caps are held in place with Allen head screws. The caps are also flat on the screw ledges and the screw holes aren't countersunk.

All of the metal on the rifle, other than the scope and bracket are painted with the usual flaking, shiny black paint. The stock is stamped with matching numbers to the rest of the rifle and the scope can has the same serial number painted on it. The scope number doesn't match the number on the butt. The stock has been rough sanded to take down the glare etc.

The fellow I talked to about the rifle said it was all perfectly normal and function was the main priority.

The scope must have been refurbed before the rifle was released from service. All adjustments work smoothly and positively and the lenses are clear, with no signs of blooming. It is missing the adjustment tool that is needed with the Mark I scope. If anyone here has tried to adjust a No 32, Mk I scope, they are a pain in the butt. 3-4 hands are a must.

I am computer challenged so if one of you wants some pics and can post them here I would be glad to send them if you give me an email address through a private message.

[breakeyp]

I sorted through about 25 No.4 (T)s at Springfield Sporters when they first started advertising them. All were rough and appeared to have been refinished at least once. As I recall, all were re serial numbered. I did purchase one that was marked and upgraded to be a No.4 Mk2 (T). Russell told me that they received no rifles with telescopic sights--India retained them for use on other weapons (model unknown). For the time, the price ($400) was double what it should have been and served to slow down sales.

[Peter Laidler]

I totally rebuilt about 70+ and probably close to 90 ex Indian Army No32 telescopes of all marks, from 1, 2's 2/1's from UIC and standard conversions including many with the Far East waterproofing modification plus the usual Mk3's. They were in dire condition but all (?) repairable ..... eventually!

The scope tubes were the worst problem with the stretched, thin ocular ends being corroded through in some cases.

The Indian Army bought large quantities of ex UK Military stockpiles including L1A1 and No4 rifles, Bedford trucks and Centurion tanks from Ordnance stockpiles in Singapore in the late 60's and into the very early 70's.

The brackets on these were the usual Dalglish and Rose Brothers stuff. It is said (but I haven't seen one....) that the veryearliest brtackets had simple screw down cradle caps. These will crush the tube though and that's why you have the taper-lock type screws.

At our Base Workshops where we range tested hundreds of rifles and telescopes the brackets were lightly bored to allow simple allen bolts to be used in the cradle caps. This was just for expedience and speed though.

Where were we...........?

Ah, yes, Indian No4T's. They had hundreds of them.................

[Pattern14]

I have an RFI "T". Made in 1962 from a British "T". I do not have the 32 for it. The rifle is correct in every detail. From the T and TR to the small "s" No number 51 on butt stock. Whoops, not every detail. The safety lever is Lb. I acquired rifle from Springfield Sporters many years ago. It's history is unknown. All I have is questions. Any new info. gary

If I remember correctly the ones Springfield Sporters had several years ago were about $400.

Sorry just saw the price posting above

[Peter Laidler]

Don't forget that we left everything there in 1948 except the kit that the British Regiments took to the docks with them. In the late 70's there were Indian Army REME workshops using our old 6x4 Austin Gantry recovery trucks. From the thread above, it would seem that the No4T's went in one direction and the telescopes/brackets came in this direction. Jeeeees, they were both a mess and a challenge. The strange thing is that the serial numbers were all in groups. This lead me to believe at the time that a batch of, say, 30 or so would be shipped to India from the UK as they'd come from H&H, all with telescopes from a similar batch and so on and on

[Nigel]

An Indian sniper - the mag cut-off gives it away as a Trials rifle converted to No.4(T) - not sure what the bayonet will do for accuracy. The late Pete Bloom managed to source the scopes that Peter Laidler then helped to rebuild - I've got a picture somewhere of them stacked in a pile before the refurbishment.