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  1. #11
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    You are aware this guy's in Italyicon? He's probably not even following this thread anymore!

    Last edited by browningautorifle; 03-29-2010 at 05:21 PM. Reason: spelling

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  3. #12
    Advisory Panel chuckindenver's Avatar
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    all 1917 barrels are cut for a sight key, even the post war replacements.
    i still dont understand why everyone thinks this is a big ordeal..its not,
    and very common with 17,s, even with some sold as surplus, and rebarreled by the Gov,
    agree, headspace should be checked, as the case with any barrel thats not indexed enough.
    to pull the receiver back and re set the index, doesnt require any lathe work, or special tools other then a good barrel vice, and action wrench.
    for that matter, the Marine Corp used a standard pipe jaw on ships to change barrels.
    and some type of jaw marks are a tell tail sign of a USMC rifle...{no not a pipe wrench} but a locking pipe jaw, thats used for cutting black pipe.
    really.
    common guys, put the endmills, tool room lathes away, roll up your sleeve, and man up here,
    some grunt, and a hour, is all thats needed to fix that rifle...really.
    how much special torque do you think is too much??????
    heres the facts...
    on a square thread, 1/8 gap is really all thats needed to index a barrel, a little more is ok, even a little less, 1/2 inch is too much, youll never get the lines close enough.
    has nothing really to do with amount of pressure. though ideal, is 75 pounds.
    normal is 50. iv seen them as much as well over 200 pounds.
    sounds like a lot??it is.. how would one measure this ??i have yet to see an action wrench with a gage on it.
    i can tell you, iv had my action wrench, a 4 foot pipe, and my 225lb butt hanging off the end before and still no luck in getting it to pop.
    a couple grunts, and they usully let loose..POW!..
    the 1917 is a very soft receiver, and can be tweeked very easy. however, it sis very strong..one of the strongest around.
    threads like that of a Mauser or Remington 700 have a crush, threads of a 17, 14, 1903, or krag do not.
    the shoulder of the barrel is the crush, you can actually set the index, and if not far enough, pull it back and reset, and push the crush a bit more,
    what works for me, is a snap.
    my reciever wrench weighs about 50 pounds all by itself, and if i just roll it back, and snap it tight, usually a couple times locks it right in..
    the Criterian barrels are nice, better then GI??hmm not real sure about that, however, the fact that the OP is in Italyicon changes all this, doubt that they would send him a barrel, as doing such in a military cal, is illegal.
    not sure what you mean by below {go}
    to check headspace on a used rifle.
    No Go is used first, if it closes easy on a no go..
    a first field reject is used, if it still closes on a a first field reject, then try another larger field reject.
    however.
    a 1917 closing on a standard GI set of gages isnt a redflag, fire a factory round in the rifle, and look at the fired case.
    chances are youlll find no problems with it...
    as i stated..1917,s are soft..3.5% nickle steel and only surface hardened.
    the locking lug weys wear real easy, as the 17 uses like metals in the bolt,
    NS on NS tends to gaul and score,
    many a 17 that i have looked at with a so called headspace issue, has actually had a worn locking lug wey.
    the only way you can see this is by removing the barrel, and looking in the face of the receiver.
    nothing can fix this, a new bolt may help your headpace, but turning back the shoulder, ect wont do anything but make more work..and your rifle will still close on a field reject, as the chamber isnt the issue,,the receiver is.
    iv posted a picture of this, and if you look ill bet youll find it in earlier posts.
    this isnt a flame, only a grasp at keeping it simple...really its that simple..
    warpath metal finishing contact info.
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  6. #13
    Member Pyno&dyno's Avatar
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    Thanks everybody for the help, since I have read of several action broken during the barrel removal and not being an expert I opted for the key modification. The gun was imported from Denmarkicon coming from Danish army surplus and on the action there are visible sign of a vice. Because the gun had no valid proof stamp had to be tested . Commonly routine is that they shoot 2 times with a reload that exceed by 25-30% the maximun CIP limit for the caliber. Because the barrel has a small rust spot probably will change it, but first I want to test it properly with reload because it seems that the rust spot doesn't affect much the precision. Of course I will not import the barrell from US because is quite complicate(but not impossible). Have heard that are avalaible Lothar Walther Barrell but have not much information about. Over here the milsurp championship is growing fast, the most used guns are Carl Gustav, but I would like to give a chance to a M1917

  7. #14
    Really Senior Member Devil Dog's Avatar
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    Chuck is correct...tighten the barrel untill the front sight is dead vertical (index/witness mark). Do not tighten or loosen an M17 barrel to achieve proper headspace. M17 barrels should index properly when they are tightened correctly. If they are too tight to achieve index, then the barrel shoulder must be machined. If they are too loose, maybe a shim is needed. After the barrel is tight and indexed properly, check headspace and ream if necessary. If the headspace is excessive, then the barrel shoulder must be machined and the front sight rotated to index properly. Adjust the "key" as stated above.
    Last edited by Devil Dog; 04-02-2010 at 09:25 PM.

  8. #15
    Advisory Panel chuckindenver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyno&dyno View Post
    Thanks everybody for the help, since I have read of several action broken during the barrel removal and not being an expert I opted for the key modification. The gun was imported from Denmarkicon coming from Danish army surplus and on the action there are visible sign of a vice. Because the gun had no valid proof stamp had to be tested . Commonly routine is that they shoot 2 times with a reload that exceed by 25-30% the maximun CIP limit for the caliber. Because the barrel has a small rust spot probably will change it, but first I want to test it properly with reload because it seems that the rust spot doesn't affect much the precision. Of course I will not import the barrell from US because is quite complicate(but not impossible). Have heard that are avalaible Lothar Walther Barrell but have not much information about. Over here the milsurp championship is growing fast, the most used guns are Carl Gustav, but I would like to give a chance to a M1917
    couple things...first,,clean your bore well, with solvent ect, and likely the rust will come out..
    second..
    the cracked 17 is more of a myth then fact, out of hundreds of 17,s that i have changed barrels on, i have yet to see one cracked from a barrel installation.
    you can buy the tools to fix that barrel correctly from Brownells and they will ship them to you.
    really, dont over think this..do it right..and the rifle will give you safe enjoyment for years and years, i doubt that your barrel will ever need replaced.
    as for the proof?? 1917,s were 3.5% nickle steel and surfaced hardened, and proof tested when first assembled, so a re proof round isnt really needed.
    i test fire all rifles that i rebarrel, only to check function and headspace.
    warpath metal finishing contact info.
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  9. #16
    Advisory Panel chuckindenver's Avatar
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    so you understand what {out of index is}
    though this rifle isnt a 17 it is a 1903, and set up the same way.
    if you look, the front sight is canted off to about 1:00 with the rifle at 12:00
    then the closeup of the witness markings on the side of the receiver,
    they are pretty darn close,and look to be on the money with a fast look, but a close look you can see they are off just a bit.
    setting the rifle in a action wrench and vise, backing the barrel out, then re setting the marks is all thats needed to repair it correctly..
    to check the index on a 1917 or P14, the witness mark is on the bottom flat of the receiver ring. just look, id bet its off just a bit.
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  10. #17
    Advisory Panel chuckindenver's Avatar
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    just for giggle sake,,heres a guy that loves his lathe, so.
    when he could have just done the job right with basic tools, the screwed it up with fancy tools..then,
    when they could have went one step further, and reset the index, they just recut the sight key...looks great dont it?? imagine what a mess it is under that front sight, id bet that if you bumped it, it would fall right off.
    warpath metal finishing contact info.
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  12. #18
    Member Pyno&dyno's Avatar
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    Here is a photo of the actual condition of the index, I have another question, because I want to clean the action from those terrible vice marks, I would like to know it is blued or parkerized. As you can see my barrel is white, do you suggest to leave like it is or can I do also the barrel?
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  13. #19
    Really Senior Member Devil Dog's Avatar
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    Those "vise' marks proove that the person who removed/installed that barrel did not have the proper tools to install barrels. There is a good chance he did not have the expertice to do the job. We call guys like him "Bubba". Perhaps he could not tighten the barrel enough to make it index with his tools and considered the job done. I'm not trying to sound like a "do gooder" but I would check the headspace before and after I tightened that barrel with the proper action wrench and barrel vise. The receiver finish looks like a dark parkerizing to me. Reparkerize the whole gun after you address the barrel/sight issue

  14. #20
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    It looks like some sort of shim at the receiver ring. That could be the culprit. Maybe the whole thing never fit to begin with.

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