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Thread: Front sight problem

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  1. #31
    Member Pyno&dyno's Avatar
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    I took a look , the prices is good, but they are asking 106-150 $ as a shipping cost, if you consider that after I will have to pay custon duty and VAT, the final cost will be over 200$for a tool that I will use only one time, I think it will be cheaper to go to a professional gunsmith, but appreciate your effort to help me out. By the way do you think I should parkerize also the barrel or is better to leave as it is?


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  3. #32
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Pyno&dyno,
    Better pictures would help for evaluation - for instance a photo taken straight along the barrel (not at a slight angle, as in your first photo, at the start of this thread)
    As far as I can judge, the foresight is about 10 degrees off vertical in the clockwise direction (looking forwards from the breech end).

    Now, if you look at first of the 2 photos you attached yesterday, it seems that the register marks on the barrel and the action line up to much better than 10 degrees - maybe to 1 or 2 degrees. This is difficult to judge, because you took the photo at an oblique angle (and once again, it would be better if you made a photo that was absolutely vertically above the register marks, so that on ecould see the alignment more clearly).

    I doubt that Bubba made those marks after fitting the barrel incorrectly. So I suggest that you take a very close look at the foresight block and the ears.
    Do they show signs of being mishandled with a wrench or clamped in a vice?
    Do your very best to remove the foresight assembly. I think you may discover that the FORESIGHT assembly is skewed, not the barrel!

    As as been pointed out, quite correctly, if the barrel was seriously out of register, then one would expect trouble with extraction. But you say that the rifle shoots OK, and has been proofed in Italyicon (at the Gardone proof house, I imagine).

    Now for the benefit of those living in a country that does not require proof by law in an official proof house (i.e. NOT just a manufacturer's proof!) the proofing does not mean just ramming in an overloaded cartridge or two and seeing if the gun will take it. My understanding is that the proof house will also check the chambering/headspace. In fact, they will do this before firing the rifle at all, to make sure that the marked chambering is actually what is in the gun (there are enough unmarked/wrongly marked/rechambered guns around to make this precaution necessary). And after passing the proof test, the rifle will be marked with proof code, date, and the actual chambering (if that is not already stamped on the action). My local dealer showed my a barrelled action that had been rejected as unsafe by the proof house without being fired - they really do check first.

    At least that is supposed to be so in Germanyicon, and I have no reason to think that Italy is any sloppier in this respect. But the proof house will not check anything else that is irrelevant for safety, such as the alignment of the foresight.

    I therefore think that it is conceivable that Bubba wrenched the foresight at some time. Maybe trying to remove the barrel? Maybe trying to align the foresight? Maybe the key is missing from the keyway? Who knows?

    But I think you should do the easy and cheap thing first - get that foresight off and take a good look - before (possibly) wasting a great deal of money on refitting a barrel that (maybe) does not need it. The trouble may be in the foresight assembly itself! Key missing, foresight twisted???

    At this point, you should beg/borrow/steal/copy the book by Charles Stratton "The Pattern 1914 and U.S: Model 1917 Rifles" ISBN 1-882391-29-2 so that you can learn how the rifle is assembled. That would be your best investment right now, before spending money on anything else.

    And I recommend making two better photos (see above) and posting them here - I may be completely wrong!

    Patrick
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 04-07-2010 at 12:18 PM. Reason: ISBN added

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  5. #33
    Advisory Panel chuckindenver's Avatar
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    Patrick? if you look close at the fist set of pics, the second pic, shows pretty clear that the barrel is out of index. by 1/8 an inch.
    fix the barrel issue first, then worry about the finish...you may be buying a new barrel.
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  6. #34
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Yes Chuck, you seem to be absolutely right (and I didn't look carefully enough). I repeat, a pic. taken square to the barrel woudl have made is easier to see, but it is indeed out of register.

    Oh well, I still think it's a good idea if he gets the book!

    Patrick

  7. #35
    Member Pyno&dyno's Avatar
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    Patrick is right about the procedure done in Gardone Valtrompia
    Chuck is also right, the barrel is out of index, just a little but it is.
    In my opinion the gun is safe to shoot having passed the proof test.
    After all the information I got from you and considered all the possible options,I think that will be cheaper if a professional take care of refitting my barrel, but I first have to know if this barrel is worth it, so this is why temporary a friend of mine has made a spline that correct the problem of the sight, in this way there are not permanent modification,and when the index will be corrected I will only replace the spline if this barrel shoot properly otherwise will find a replacement.Patrick was right about the front sight, the idiot that refitted the barrel, tried to correct the front sight with the hammer.
    Considering that this weapon has no collection value because not all the pieces are winchester, it must be a shooter.
    I am glad that I subscribed to this forum , you guys are teaching me a lot things

  8. #36
    Really Senior Member Devil Dog's Avatar
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    Hey Chuck.....
    What do you think of the dovetail cut directly over the chamber? Does that weaken the chamber area to a point that re-proofing could be a problem?

  9. #37
    Advisory Panel chuckindenver's Avatar
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    i think its ok, iv seen many a 1903 and 1917 with the same dovetail cuts, pretty? no. safe..yes.
    if you look at hatchers notebook, he turns a barrel down to darn near nothing before it finally gives away.
    warpath metal finishing contact info.
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  10. #38
    Really Senior Member krinko's Avatar
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    Pyno&dyno,
    Best of luck with the rifle and I hope you get that sight to go vertical---the rifles do shoot well if the rear ladder is parallel to the front tower.

    Others,
    At one time I had five loose M17 barrels---a Remington, two Eddystones and two Johnson Automatics. All five were take-offs, were the same length, had shoulders in the same place (+/-) etc.
    When laid side by side, with the keyways top dead center, one of the Eddy's threads could be seen to start 35-40 degrees right compared to the other four.
    Screwing them hand tight into a Winchester receiver I had laying around, it was obvious that this one barrel would never fit a regular receiver----no matter how manly the wrench turner...and yet, it had been on a rifle.
    This is perhaps an extreme example of manufacturing tolerances, but you get the drift.
    The rifle that got the sight key trick was a Remington, with a Remington 1-19 barrel. The front sight was canted right.
    One of the rifles I have now is a Remington, with a Remington 1-19 barrel and the front sight is canted left. Just enough to make unwanted windage shifts beyond 200 yards.
    Lazy people in 1919? Manufacturing tolerences? The index mark might give us a clue, but I am too damned lazy to tear down the rifle.
    You know how I'll correct it, anyway----so it hardly matters.

    By the way, the screwy Eddystone was one of the ones I sold on Gunbroker when '17 barrels got over $100 each. If one of you bought it, I hope you don't harbor a grudge.
    -----krinko

    My shooter----JA barrel placed by a local guy who cast his own lead barrel bushings and could find T.D.C.

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