Photos MK1 conv 1c17GA KevG

[ZGB]

Thanks for the photos of the 7.62mm MK1conversion indian bren. Iam having regrets now of not buying it at beltring but could'nt justify the price at the time. It does lack DP markings but i wonder the cx markings mean that are stamped on some of the parts.The one that got away. Off now to play with some Madsen smg's.

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

Come on then lads........, let's ALL see the Mk1 converted to 7.62mm.

There was an interesting story as to the Enfield attempt at the conversion of the Mk1 to 7.62 - the ill fated L4A7.

[Kev G]

You won't like it Peter but I'll post some pics anyway.
I have been trying to Email you the pics but your email server has blacklisted me.
Back in a bit.

ATB Kevin

[Kev G]

OK,here it is.But as this is the last designation given to Indian 7.62 LMG's why did they bother and why so bad.....was it for cadets or training where it's less than glamorous finish wouldn't matter ?

As the MK3 conversions were -
GUN MACHINE 7.62MM 1A
IMG 15GA

And new built 7.62's were -
GUN MACHINE 7.62MM 1B
IMG 16GA

Then this from a MKIm -
GUN MACHINE 7.62MM 1C
IMG 17GA







What do you reckon ?

ATB Kevin

p.s I was waiting for the price to drop aswell ZGB,so I also missed out.

[triggerhappy2]

I have one of these mk1 converted to 7.62 nato that is in pristine condition. Also a MkII that was converted also ( got that one from Wheaty many years ago ) if I get a chance I will post some pics Both are in excellent or better condition.

On the Mk1 conversion the weld on the MkII sight is as bad as the pictures here but it doesnt affect performance

regards Triggerhappy2

[Brit plumber]

I've seen one of these Mk1 conversions too but I didn't recognise it for what it was. The only diffrence I can see is the one I saw didn't have welds on the sight bracket, just rivets.

I'm also thinking that this up/down grade would only work on the Enfield and Lithgow guns unless the Indians had a profiled adapter for the back end.

[Peter Laidler]

Ah, very interesting pictures and discussion. First things first......... The firm Westley Richards bought thousands of Brens post war to refurbish for the post war emerging armies. Most (?) of them were obsolescent Mk1's but the prospective purchasing nations wanted the Mk2 and 3 type backsights. So they designed a small rear backsight bridge, shaped like an 'H' piece that straddled the rear and was brazed in place. This took the backsight axis pin and backsight. The backsight positioning spring locator was also brazed in placed and further secured by the 2BA(?) retaining screw. I interviewed an ex Armourer who was involved in this Bren refurbishment programme and he described it down to a tee.

He also told me that the majority of these converted guns went to the old British protectorates and islands which is ironic as I saw one of these with the FIJI army in 1968 and their UK Bordon trained Armourer, Cpl Lai Nakavadra told me that they had lots of them. I thought that they were a local modification but they were VERY well done and after I spoke to Tony 'Dusty' Miller from W-R, it all made sense. From this, it would appear that some of the converted/modified guns went to India where they've carried it on - and on - and on - until some of them have gone through the 7.62mm programme.

The Indian ones look a bit ...., er..... agricultural but no doubt they work well.

Enfield did a feasibility study to convert stockpiles of Mk1's to 7.62mm for any needy nation but didn't offer the backsight conversion because W-R had the patent rights on the method of conversion - so said........ They did a couple of examples and gave them the designation of L4A7. Australia was one nation who was interested but there was a catch. They weren't permitted to do the work themselves, they had to be converted at Enfield who owned the IP rights to the process. Enfield were a bit wary about Lithgows business practices because Lithgow undercut Enfield (and LB) with the L1A1 and sold them across the old Commonwealth, usually the sole preserve of the UK! Bloody cheek from these wild antipodean upstart cut throats eh!

Anyway, Australia told Enfield where it could put its L4A7 project (with incorrect backsight reading too) and went ahead with the L2 programme. When it did need L4's for the jungle, we supplied them free! And when they needed more, they purchased 1,000 plus. But as there was no IP rights on the magazines, they made those - slightly different and spare barrels too.


Well, like the Indians, waste not, want not!

There, a bit of a history lesson

[Brit plumber]

Very Intresting Peter, I wonderd why the Aussies went ahead with the L2.

[Kev G]

Very Intresting Peter, I wonderd why the Aussies went ahead with the L2.

I would think it was probably the same route the UK went with the LSW.
Slap a heavy barrel and a bipod on......some might say wrongly.

[ZGB]

Has anybody out there got a westly richards conversion in there collection.They don't seem to have made it back to the UK in any quantity.