advice on brens

[infidel]

Guys,
Thinking about getting a semi-auto bren. anything to look out for/avoid?
thanks
Infidel

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[limpetmine]

Only a little. Historic Arms made the first approved semi Bren, and some of the early ones had issues. I HOPE those have been corrected, as I have one now but not fired it. Wiselite is highly recommended by many folks, but I've not seen or fired one. There is another bunch in Texas that will make you one for 2K on your parts kit trade in. Don't know about them, but their GB pictures look good. Anybody seen or fired one?
Then there are the homebuilts from Midwest Metals' design. More trouble than I have time for at this stage of life. Good hunting.

[Peter Laidler]

But whatever you do, make sure that you get one. You'll find that even on semi auto, they live up to the reputation of
'the finest machine gun ever to be put into the hands of the fighting soldier. Given their accuracy, reliability and simplicity, no soldier wants or asks for anything else'

BDL knows of a company that makes semi's. And if you ask him VERY nicely, he might let you squeeeeeze off a few bursts of his rock and roller.......

Go on, spoil yourself.................!

[WallyG.]

There is also a company in Florida, Project Guns LLC, that is making semi-auto Brens... I do not know whose approved design they are using... but posts seem to indicate they are a fine product.

Project Guns LLC
1707 NW arcadia Way
Boca Raton, Fl 33432
(561) 394-8228
9am to 6pm M-F

[gravityfan]

Here's a copy of something found in another forum on the matter:


A friend of a friend asked me recently about a Historic Arms Bren, and as I now have both a Wise Lite Mk.1(M) and a Historic Arms Mk.2, it may be of interest to readers of this forum to have a copy of what I passed on.

Here is the text of my email:



I have a Wise Lite Arms (WLA) Mk.1(M), and a Historic Arms (HA) Mk.2. I got the WLA direct from WLA, and the HA pre-owned. While the HA has been through other hands, most of my comments relate to the build, which should not be affected by being owned a while and shot a little, although it has not been shot much.


Initially I got the WLA, and was a little disappointed. They had not assembled the rear sight correctly, although that only took a couple of minutes to fix. I gave them feedback about it. Then I fired it, and found that the headspacing was way too big. It was ripping the heads off about 1 in 3 brand new cases that I had loaded quite mildly. I measured it, and it was HUGE. I wrote them and ended up on the phone with one of their guys. They were willing for me to ship it back and fix it, but I'd have to pay the shipping one way, which is a lot. I asked if they could send me the largest locking shoulder they had, and I'd check that out and have it milled down if necessary. The one they sent was a perfect headspace fit, and I have been using it ever since. Interestingly the guy there said that they don't headspace them, just check for function and test fire. I thought that a bit odd, and was rather hard on them in the forum. I have since changed my mind considerably. Other than those two little niggles, the build is superb, the quality is par excellence, and everything works like it should. I was shooting it today, and getting around 6" group at 100yds. That means it clearly outshoots my eyeballs and technique.


Then I got the HA. Looks real nice. I noticed that the ejection port was missing the sliding cover, and I do like a little authenticity. No problem, I have a spare lower, so I disassembled the cover from that to fit. Then I took it apart and realised why I had thought it funny the first time I stripped and cleaned it. The lower is cut immediately in front of the triggerguard, and the forward part is welded onto the upper. Part of their version of the semi-auto conversion, I suppose. Anyway, it means that I could not fit the cover, and it doesn't strip in any authentic way. That is a shame.


I took the HA to shoot, and it was all a bit gassy. I found that the primers weren't getting dented, they were getting chads punched out of them. So I compared. The WLA firing pin looks as if it were made by Enfield. It has to be elongated because of the conversion process, but they made theirs beautifully. Must have a hot guy on the lathe there. The HA extended firing pin looks like it was cut out of scrap sheet by the new apprentice using blunt tinsnips. Is is bloody awful. It is also bent in two plains. The business end isn't rounded or dressed in any way, thus the piercing of the primers. Pin projection, naturally, is way out.


Further investigation proved some other "funnies". It wouldn't take the last round out of the mag. I compared the breech blocks, and the HA one had the cartridge feed horns filed down, explaining the bad feed. I have a spare, and they are not altered for the conversion, so I thought I'd just put that in instead. Horror - it wouldn't fit. After a lot of trying and measuring, it appears to me that HA welded the upper together with far less accuracy than WLA. So badly, in fact that not only did they have to file down the breech block feed horns to get it in, they had to file down the breech block itself to a few thou narrower. The piston extension is also filed to buggery and back - and still too stiff.


Other indications of the reassembly of the upper being somewhat less than one might expect; it is difficult to get the barrel off. The barrel nut binds. I have found that this is due to a misalignment between the breech opening for the chamber end of the barrel and the centre line of the fitted barrel. I have to hammer the barrel nut to release it and then hammer the barrel forward to get it out. Re-fitting takes the same amount of hammering. Everything on the HA is too tight a fit, mostly caused by misalignments.


So, on reflection, I find that the quality of the WLA is really excellent, and other than the two minor and easily correctable items, it is a work of art that is authentic in every way. It looks good assembled or stripped. Even a museum or a re-enactor would love it. It shoots a dream and is a pleasure to own and use.


As to the HA, put it this way: I'd swap it and $1,000.00 for a WLA right now, and any time I get the chance I will. No comparison between the two.


That said, as I mentioned; the HA was bought pre-owned. Not that the previous owner could have contributed to any of its faults as described. However it does mean that it may be older than the WLA. It is serial number less than 60, and they may have made so many more since then that they have sorted out these problems. I don't know. If I was to try another HA Mk.2, I think I'd turn down anything numbered under 100, maybe higher. I'd also check a lot of things out before buying by a full stripdown and look for filing/grinding marks.


Having said that, I don't like the cut and welded lower, so if I get round to replacing it with another Mk.2, it will be a WLA. No doubt about it.


The one question that remains is that I hear nothing but good about Len Savage, He is almost legendary. I can't ratify that kind of reputation with this bad build. I am keen to understand more, but for now the HA Mk.2 is an embarassment at the back of the storage racks, I don't need to get to it very often.


Wist Lite Arms, my hat is off to you. Historic Arms - what happened?

[limpetmine]

I've read this post as well, and after having my HA in hand, (but not fired yet), I think this review is overly harsh. To knock a guy who designed an ATF approved semi design (not an easy task) for it not stripping the same way, I mean really. Mine has a well fitted and operable dust cover, so that issue must have been teething pains in production.
The fit and finish on mine is excellent; no grind or weld marks are visible even in the strongest of light. At first inspection, I see no problems with a Historic Arms semi Bren.

[jmoore]

Len Savage never really expected to be the man actually building all of these conversions, he just kind of got painted into a corner when the folk who had contracted w/ him to do the production work bailed out. (This from a face to face conversation w/ him some years back when he was "tweaking" my semi-BREN, so the details are going.)

Since mine was one of the first MkI(m) variants he built, I can't comment on the newer ones, but he really does care about his work. He had plenty of enthusiasm for the project, but he REALLY enjoys creating new "toys" more than running a "production line".

[Brian Dick]

I'll be picking one of the Texas made guns up for consignment from a friend and associate at the SAR East show in York, PA next month. I'm not sure of the price nor can I remember the name of the outfit in TX that built it but I do know it works fine.

[MGMike]

What to avoid: a semi-auto Bren. It's BORING.

It's like buying a Maserati with an automatic transmission and a governor that limits road speed to 30 mph.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

M

[limpetmine]

Couldn't disagree more.

What to avoid: a semi-auto Bren. It's BORING.

It's like buying a Maserati with an automatic transmission and a governor that limits road speed to 30 mph.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

M