Lanchester Mk1 SMG

[Brit plumber]

I really should buy that book!

I've seen the slot in the body on another gun, but I've not seen a hole for the trigger bar on any Lanchester (Probably not noticed it). If anyone has a trigger mech with the hole, could they post a pic?

[Peter Laidler]

Brit Plumber has struck oil there.......... Ignore the safety latch (book, page 16 item 27A) info now BP, you have a true articulating Mk1 trigger bar (P9, items 1,2,3&4 - the bit that joins the trigger to the sear) as opposed to the usual Mk2 fixed variant (P19, item 53). You've also got the hole in the casing for the tripping lever.

Quite clearly, BP's Lanchester was made as a Mk1*, using up a Mk1 casing and trigger parts mated to a Mk1* trigger mechanism housing that has been screwed onto the Mk1 casing.

I suppose, in theory, you could make a Mk1 tripping lever and change lever, modify the trigger mech housing and revert it back to a Mk1 gun

Quick question first BP. In your thread above, do you mean the hole for the trigger bar or hole for the change lever? And it is a good book too!

[Vincent]

If I understand correctly, the hinged disconnector attached to the tripping lever lifted the hinged trigger bar extension to disengage the trigger when the selector was set to repetition. When the selector was moved to automatic, the cam would push the disconnector back, keeping the disconnector from lifting the trigger bar extension.

The hinged trigger bar extension would reposition the tripping lever when the selector was in repetition. But what repositioned the tripping lever when the selector was in automatic? There must also be a spring of some sort to reposition the tripping lever each time the breech block passes? Have you seen one?

It's a very good book. Aside from the fantastic documentation, it's a joy to read.

[Peter Laidler]

I'll refer to the book again Vinnie. But, basically, you've got it! From my memory of these things now, there is no spring that operates on the actual tripping lever (P9, Item 8) but when the change lever is set to 'A' , the hinged disconnector (item 10) is rotated out of harms way and thereafter, its position is a bit academic. But when the change lever is set to R, the disconnector (10) is allowed to spring inwards and sits underneath the squared tail of the trigger bar extension (2). Trigger pressed and all that........ now as the lever (8) is tripped by the breech block it tips downwards, lifting the rear and the disconnector (10) lifts the extension (2). When the extension (2) reasserts itself, it is this, acting under the influence of the spring (3) that moves the tripping lever back into position.

Obviously that is a very quick and brief summary that would earn me 1/10 if this was being marked by one of those mean, tight fisted trade test examiners! And many other things are working simultaneously too.

You can see/understand why this mechanism was doomed from the start and just why the Sten gun and later self contained Sterling SMG's were far, far superior. I have to say that I acquired three of these as de-wats in the UK and the quality of the workmanship was dire. Can anyone decipher the arabic writing stamped under the brass magazine housing in one of the previous photographs?

Thanks also for your kind comments about the book.

Has anyone else out there in Forum-land got one/any of these beasts? I remember seeing them advertised for regular sale in the US, in some old, early 60's US shooting magazines. They can't ALL have got the chop? Or do they now all live under floor boards?

[peregrinvs]

Has anyone else out there in Forum-land got one/any of these beasts?

I have a deactivated 1943 Sterling Mk1* that was bought for me by my father as a 21st birthday present in July 1994. It was bought for the princely sum of £75 (including a P1907 bayonet) from a company called 'R.I.F.L.E.' in Little Eaton who advertised in Gunmart every month.

Digressing somewhat: The proprietors later turned out to be real 'characters' who spent some time as guests of Her Majesty for supplying old-spec deactivated SMGs along with parts + instructions enabling criminals to return them to working order.

I hasten to add that I was entirely unaware of this at the time and my one is perfectly legal.

Mark

[Vincent]

Thanks Peter. That’s how I thought it worked.

No spring to return the tripping lever!! That’s interesting. So once the breech block cycled in automatic and lifted the tripping lever there was nothing to reposition it?

Without a spring to reposition the tripping lever it looks like the disconnector would hit the side of the trigger bar extension when the selector is moved back to repetition. That’s if the disconnector is still held by the selector after the tripping lever has is raised by the breech block cycling.

Yes, now I see why the mechanism was removed.

As this will be a closed bolt, semi-auto only, I think a similar arrangement would work. There would be no disconnector, just a one piece tripping lever. I would like to use the breech block below, Mk4 Sterling modified to semi-auto Mk6 configuration. This means moving the sear forward for the firing pin, and a longer tripping lever. An arrangement like the STEN might be more suitable though.



I would like to keep the appearance as close to the original as possible. Maybe have the safety where the selector was on the Mk1.

There’s no doubt the STEN and Sterling are superior in many ways. I am just looking to have some little bits of history that I can take out and shoot on Sunday afternoons.

BTW, Your STEN book is very good too. Any chance of Bren book? I got a Mk2 parts kit yesterday. It will be my next project after the Lanchester.

[Brit plumber]

BTW, Your STEN book is very good too. Any chance of Bren book? I got a Mk2 parts kit yesterday. It will be my next project after the Lanchester.

Another customer for the Bren book Peter, will it be out for Christmas?

[Vincent]

Found some more bits. A safety lever and a Mk1 sight base.



Does anyone have a Mk1 sight they would like to sell or know where I can find one?

[drm2m]

Could someone please tell me if these guns were originally finished as shown below.

Thanks

David

[Peter Laidler]

The only ones I ever saw in service were Brit, Australian and NZ navy ones out in the Far East. The Aust Navy ones were from a Submarine and the NZ Navy ones were from HMNZS Royalist. The original finish was pretty thin to the point of threadbare....., as shown on the end cap of DRM's example but the Navy Armourers at the Armament Depots used to keep them all in order. Where they'd gone through our Base Repair programmes, they were the usual phosphate and black oil dipped finish. As I remember it, the brass magazine housings (some were folded/wrapped steel) looked to me as though it'd just been left to tarnish and darken down naturally. Yours looks as though it's actually better than some of the Lanchesters the Navy had and a whole LOT better than some of the dewat/deact stuff that was available in the UK many years ago

It's interesting to see the backsight bed gas-welded down over the original screws. What on earth possessed anyone to specify screwing the spring loaded backsight bed down onto a round .100" (?) thick casing with BA threads that weren't even square on to the diameter of the tube is simply beyond me! But there you go........, desperate times require drastic solutions and all that.

Is yours a runner DRM? I've got one in similar condition but it's been through the Base Workshop system........... naturally!