MkII Inglis Bren Barrel Handles

[peregrinvs]

Hi,

First question from the new boy.;) (drum roll...)

When was the Mk2 barrel handle introduced for the MkII Bren and was it made by both Inglis and Monotype, or just Monotype?

I ask as my 1943 Inglis MkII came with a Mk2 barrel handle on its non-matching 1944 barrel. I originally assumed this was factory spec working on the principle that early-ish MkII's would have had a Mk1 handle before production was later switched to the Mk2 handle.

However, I have since been advised that only Monotype fitted the Mk2 handle - is this correct? Just to add further confusion, I've seen pictures of fresh MkII Brens taken in both the Inglis and Monotype factories and they all have Mk1 handles. Confused...:dunno:

Grateful for any clarification.

Thanks,

Mark

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Peter Laidler]

It was introduced at the same time as the Mk2 Bren, as a resuklt of the Pilkington committee for the simplfication of small-arms. That's the EASY bit. But because a Mark type of component is designated as 'Mark 2', it doesn't follow that it will be used on a Mk2 GUN (although it does mean it in some cases, such as the Mk2 pistol grip for example - which can only be used on a Mk2 butt slide! Same for backsight assemblies too of course...). During production, you simply used whatever was available at the time of assembly. And if there were still thousands of Mk1 carrying handles backing up in the system, then they got used until Tibbenhams geared up to make the Mk2, cheaper and slightly lighter version. The Mk2 type lasted longer too!

BSA made the Mk1 Bren woodwork for Enfields Mk1 guns and continued producing them until Mk1A production ceased in late 1944, when the Mk3 came on stream at Enfield. Both Mk1 and 2 carrying handles were readily available from Ordnance up to the day the last .303" and L4 Brens were finally declared Obsolete in 2002

It'd be nice to report that they were fitted after the lunch break on the xxth of xxxx 1943 but life isn't that simple. In service, Brens were fitted with whatever was available off the shelf. The only thing that mattered was the Mk of the gun

[peregrinvs]

It'd be nice to report that they were fitted after the lunch break on the xxth of xxxx 1943 but life isn't that simple. In service, Brens were fitted with whatever was available off the shelf. The only thing that mattered was the Mk of the gun

I take your point, but I'm still keen to pin down whether Inglis manufactured and / or fitted Mk2 grips to their MkII Brens. I would expect a more 'use whatever happened to be available' approach with parts factory fitted to the Monotype Brens due to the extensive use of subcontractors. (Daimler, etc) However, AFAIK Inglis production was mostly 'in house'. (For example, I have an Inglis marked Mk1 barrel grip plate)

Another thought that occurs is that simplification was presumably slightly less of a priority to Inglis compared to Monotype as Inglis didn't adopt the British type Mk2 bipod or the Mk2 barrel without a receiver locating lug.

I happily admit this is trainspotter stuff. The people who used them had vastly better things to worry about.

Cheers,

Mark

PS. Or to look at it in another way; has anyone reading ever seen an Inglis marked Mk2 grip or grip plate?

[Peter Laidler]

The answer MUST be this. Does anyone have a Canadian parts list that includes the Mk2 carrying handle or refence to the Mk2 carrying handle part number

I have to say that in service, the Mk1 carrying handle was a bit of a pigs ear becase the large diameter front ends were forever getting seven bells (that's another particularly REME technical phrase indicating that something is 'vulnerable to being knocked about a bit....') kicked out of it by the bipod feet and bodyside. When times were hard and spares short, you had to patch them. If they were very oily, then the old animal bone glue didn't stand a chance.

The Indians had the right idea by simply turning OFF the large diameter to make it the smaller Mk2 diameter, use a Mk2 plate and there you had another plenty of years of life left in them! Someone must have a photo of a such modified handle.................

Where were we........... Oh yes. Anyone got a Canadian Ord parts list handy?

[Brit plumber]

Untill recently I believed that Monotype used the Mk2 only, and Inglis the Mk1 only. However KG provided some factory photos of monotype guns with Mk1 handles. I've still to see evidence of Inglis using Mk2 handles but I'm quite sure they stuck with the mk1 type (Which would explain why there were plenty of NOS mk1 handles around a few years back).


Heres a link to Peters guide to repairing handles, there is a photo or two that shows the indian Mk1 to Mk2 handle conversion.

BREN Mk1 Carrying Handles (by Peter Laidler) - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

[peregrinvs]

As an aside on this, I have a spare Mk2 grip and it is marked 'B' in the wood under the grip plate. BSA?

Cheers,
Mark

[Brian Dick]

I have a couple of near new condition Mk.II barrels ,and both are fitted with Mk.1 handles of Canadian manufacture.

[Brian Dick]

I meant to say near new Inglis manufactured barrels.

[Peter Laidler]

What year are they Brian?

Next question........... Does anyone have a Canadian parts list that identifies a Canadian Mk2 parallel type carrying handle?

[peregrinvs]

Update: The mighty KevG has supplied me with a mint Inglis Mk1 grip and grip plate and I have fitted them to my Inglis MkII. I've also added a mint Canadian sling, a Canadian 2nd pattern Bren sling hook and also obtained a mint Canadian barrel holdall.

(Oh, and I swapped the cocking handle slide covers between my Enfield and Inglis Brens as the Enfield had an Inglis cover and the Inglis had a British Corfield & Buckle cover)

I would upload a picture, but I assume I don't have the right privileges as nothing happens when I try.

Cheers,

Mark