Newbie asks for advice

[marlin]

I have very limited experience reloading, and I do not own a press at this time, although I have owned one many moons ago.

I would like to pull the bullets off of a bunch of 1943 Turk 8mm Mauser ammo and reduce the charge on them and then replace the bullets so that I have some comfortable, accurate ammo that I can shoot all afternoon without hammering my shoulder. This ammo will be shot through several different milsurps. P.S. I have a bunch of it. I bought it years ago when it was ridiculously cheap. I'm also going to get a chronograph so I can test the loads.

At this time, I don't want to get a progressive press, so I'm leaning towards the Lee Single Stage Press along with . . .

RCBS Shellholder #3
RCBS 2-Die Set 8x57mm Mauser
RCBS Collet Bullet Puller
RCBS Collet Bullet Puller Collet 32 Caliber, 8mm

This last item, the bullet puller collet, I am not sure about. I emailed Midway to ask which one I should use between that one and the .30 cal collet. I'll buy both of them anyway, but I ask you, which one would you use on the 8mm bullets?

Other than some case lube that I didn't list, do I need anything else?

Thanks in advance.

Information

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[res45]

I've used the RCBS collet puller for quiet a few year pulling various LB and HB bullets form brass case 54r ammo to either reduce the charge or replace the bullets with an equivalent commercial SP's to make hunting ammo.

Before you pull the bullet you need to break the seal or crimp on the surplus rd. to make the extraction easier,you can do this by running the surplus rd. up into the bullet seater die.

To do this take the seat plug out or adjust it up high so it doesn't touch the bullet when you run the rd up into the seater die,run the factory rd. up into the die with the ram at full stroke and adjust it down till you feel it touch the factory roll crimp them back the die off a couple turns and lock it down. Next with the rd. at full stroke into the die body adjust the bullet seater plug till it touches the bullet then lower the ram and adjust the seater plug down so it seats the bullet between 1/16 and 1/8 deeper into the case.

Make sure on the RCBS collet puller that you tighten the set screw on the die body lock ring and tighten the die body snug in the press,this will keep the die body for coming loose when you try and release the tension of the pullers collet holding the bullet. Sometime I will get a very light ring where the collet touches the extracted bullet it's not a problem,just make sure you don't over do it when torquing the collet onto the bullet. It just takes a little trial and error to get the feel of it. Once you pull the bullet you will need to resize the case neck so that you have proper tension to reinstall the existing bullet or a new one of same weigh and profile. If you find that the collet puller damages the bullets to much the hammer style pullers will work also there just a little more labor intensive.

On reducing loads in the 8MM I don't shoot one so I cant speak on the powders used in the particular cartridges you have,some powders don't work well when reduced past a certain percentage of case volume and you can get hang fires or SEE Secondary Explosive Effect which can cause bodily harm and destroy you rifle. In my M44 54r using the Bulgarian ammo I've found reducing the factory charge by two grains reduces recoil slightly and is more accurate the ammo is loaded on the warm side anyways. A nice recoil pad such as the Velcro or lace on Kick Killer will work great also.

The best way I have found to enjoy shooting the old military rifles which has substantial recoil is to load your own using cast bullets and powders like Red Dot or Alliant 2400 to name a few. MV are around 1500 to 1600 fps. using these loads and it's like shooting a 22 rf all day long. Hodgdon Powder Co. also offers a powder called TrailBoss that can be used with reduced loads and jacketed bullets that have equivalent MV to the cast loads,a call to Hodgdon can get you the proper data for the 8mm.

[marlin]

Your advice was very helpful, and more than I expected. Thanks. Where do I send the check?

[Jerome Cooper]

Excellent and thorough advice has been given to you so far. Normally hammer type bullet pullers will work but the "seal" makes it quite difficult. An old trick I learned a long time ago might prove interesting. Take two flat bars of steel, an inch wide, 1/2 inch thick and 6-7 inches long......a couple of wood chisels would also work fine. Put the neck of the cartridge on one of them and the other one ---place it on top and roll the neck back and forth several times under firm downward pressure between the two.....the neck will loosen around the bullet and you can even pull the bullet out by hand. You can use one bar or chisel if you have a bench vise with an anvil or flat portion which would take the place of the second or "underneath" bar. It works and amazes people the first time they do it, but the process is slow if you have a lot of bullets to pull. It does not hurt the bullets or the case necks. All you need is patience and you may not have to buy a bullet puller. Jerome Cooper

[marlin]

Thanks, I'll try that just to see how it works, but it sounds too labor intensive for a large batch. Midway will be getting an order from me soon.

[smellie]

That Turk ammo is a dead-on copy of the German World War One loading. It has a 154-grain flatbase bullet ahead of a charge of flake powder. The primers are dodgy, though.

I did a test on some of this, unloaded the stuff very carefully and dumped the charges (without bothering to weight them) into fresh-primed commercial cases, seated the military bullets and went to the range with 3 rifles: a Kar 98aZ, a Mauser 1915 Gew '98 and a 'No-name brand" Kar 98b from the von Seekt secret rearmament program in the 1920s. Imagine my shock when ALL THREE rifles started turning in groups WELL UNDER 2 MOA and some of them exactly 1 MOA... with original sights!

Shooting was pleasant and without the nasty kick that you get from those Heavy Ball loadings (which actually were the original anti-Tank loads, BTW).

The 154 bullets are not in those cases very hard, or very deeply, at all. Just insert in the muzzle and one quick and short twist and they are loose and you can pull them with finger-power. You don't even need a puller for these.

Don't bother dropping the charges, either. This stuff shoots quite pleasantly with the original charge levels. I have NO idea why they ever changed!

Hope this helps.

[TDH]

Another thing you can try to loosen the bullet is to just seat it a bit deeper (a couple thousants should work) and they willbe easier to pull because it will break the seal