Rare 1915 Ross MKIII sniper rifle

[Badger]

Badger,
I ran across your Ross sniper posts. This one has a short stock, is that the norm? In my Ross Rifle Story, page 180 the one they show has a full stock? Which is correct?
Thanks,
Bigedac

Read the article, comments and examine the pics in the MKL...

1915 M10 Ross MkIII* Sniper Rifle Serial #223

You may also want to use the "Search Milsurps.Com" custom Google Search box in the top right corner of the web page. Use the term Ross Sniper to start with and you may find several threads that disucss full wood versus cut back stocks on Ross Sniper rifles.

Regards,
Doug

[browningautorifle]

This one has a short stock, is that the norm?

Following what the boss just said, the first post in this thread has a picture you could examine... http://www.milsurps.com/vbpicgallery.php?do=big&p=1282

[Bigedac]

Jim,
Okey dokey, that answers my question. Thank you and Doug, great information.
Errol

[Surpmil]

Here's a few more for your interest. Note the sporting rifle (Lee Speed?) being used by the man closest to the camera in the sixth photo. A couple of P14s in the middle row right of the second photo. Plenty of cut down SMLEs and Ross MkIIIs. Fourth photo, Frank Iriam, second from left in back row. Last two: 4th CMR in Sept. 1918, uncut Ross MkIIIs and P14s.

[browningautorifle]

Second last pic is Royal Newfoundland Regt, you can see the lower left man's collar dog. Third last pic has optics that are NOT W/S scopes...long and thin. Seventh has a LL by the look of it, you don't see too many of those in WW1 pics. These all done for sniper use, long since documented...

[Bigedac]

Thanks for the photos, great stuff!! Sad to think that all of them are now gone.
bigedac

[Surpmil]

The last two photos are taken at the same time and location. The collar badge is the moose head of the 4th Canadian Mounted Rifles, (reformed as infantry in 1916), 8th Canadian Infantry Brigade, 3rd Canadian Division. The triangle over a square shoulder patch is visible. The photo would seem to confirm that some snipers still used iron-sighted rifles even in 1918. The long thin scopes are probably all Winchester A5s or B4s. In the third photo, front row second from left you can see the W&S scope base on the Ross. The left hand man probably had an A5 since the barrel is cut so he had no front sight. Surprising how many are carrying standard SMLE's and hard to say if those were their "sniping" rifles or just for the photos. Makes you wonder if snipers shared rifles in some battalions. In the third to last photo, the five men in the rear rank left are carrying only pistols marking them as scouts; at least two others are also. The fleur de lis scout badge, 'borrowed' from the Boy Scouts, is visible on some right sleeves. The range photos are taken at the Canadian Corps sniping school at Mont des Cats. A lot can be learned from these old photos; in those days the camera didn't lie.

The Soviets were very keen on the Ross for target and sniping practice in the 20s and early 30s. We know they hadn't forgotten about them even in the 50s.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Sniper_%281931%29

[browningautorifle]

. The collar badge is the moose head of the 4th Canadian Mounted Rifles, 8th Canadian Infantry Brigade, 3rd Canadian Division. The triangle over a square shoulder patch is visible.

Roger that...

The long thin scopes are probably all Winchester A5s or B4s.

I realized after they were No1Mk3s...so the shape of the optic makes sense. As for the whole iron sight question, many of those guys employed iron...take the three shooters at the Mont of Sorrel. Iron sights and held up the advance of the enemy with grievous casualties to them. I think one was as employable as the other.

[Bigedac]

Thanks for the history, as you most likely know history has become my business as president of the Aviation Cadet Museum.

[Surpmil]

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Sniper_%281931%29

Some stills from the film. Looks like the Soviets had some sort of setup similar to the Austrian M95 system with a single rear "leg" and windage in the front base. I don't recognize the scope off hand, possibly an early Voigtlander or but maybe one of the Soviet's first efforts? Or something they captured from the Austrians in bulk?

The film looks interesting; they seem to have enough kit for a highland company; I wonder where they got that?

The Ross was probably a good choice for sniper training, which was later encouraged heavily through the OSOAVIAKhIM: accurate, quick handling, in limited supply and using a non-standard ammunition.

Somewhere in their museums and archives must be some interesting documentation on all this.

Incidentally, the Russians have been putting online large amounts of captured German documentation in the last few years. For those who can read German it is a gold mine.