Expected accuracy?

[levallois]

Took the Eddystone out yesterday and had some fun punching paper. I really like this rifle and find it more comfortable to hold than the 1903. However, I wonder what kind of accuracy I should be expecting at this point. This is my first Model of 1917 and the first time that I shot it. It was about 100 degrees and about a 10 mph cross wind using Lake City ammo. With 6 shots sitting with arms on a concrete bench and holding at 6-oclock on an 8-inch diameter target, I was getting consistent 4-inch groups above and mostly to the right of center at 50 yards. Unfortunately I forgot my spotting scope and they don't rent them anymore at the range so this was a far out as I could see the hits and so as far as I shot. Is this kind of grouping at this distance reasonable? I'm not the best shot in the world but it seems like I should be able to do better. I have to admit that the peep sight was hard for me to get used to - it looked too big, taking in the entire front sight and all - are there any tricks to being more consistent shot after shot with this rifle? I'm going to take it back out in the next week or so with the spotting scope and see what it can do at 100 yards so any help, tricks, tests, would be appreciated.

Thanks!

John

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Aragorn243]

BRAS, easy to remember.

Breath, Relax, Aim, Squeeze

Depending on the barrel, bore, and crown, a 1917 is capable of a lot better than 4 inch groups at 50 yards. But it was your first time with it, with open sights. Practice will make you better.

Sandbagging it will help you get it zeroed better, hold it on the sandbags rather than on your arm.

I'm not a great open shot shooter either, much prefer scopes, my eyesight just isn't what it used to be.

[Emri]

Some lots of LC ammo aren't the best choice for accuracy. Try something else next time.

[Chuckindenver]

the M1917 has to stock bushing front and rear, this is what makes them shoot 3 to 4 inch groups at 100 yards,
the 1917,s that have been put in good sporter stocks and bedded and frefloated, usually shoot under an inch.

[daveboy]

"I'm not the best shot in the world but it seems like I should be able to do better. I have to admit that the peep sight was hard for me to get used to - it looked too big, taking in the entire front sight and all"

Don't have my 1917 in front of me right now, but I believe the flip-up peep sight has a smaller aperature which should allow for better accuracy. Place the rifle on a rest, use the flip-up sight set to the lowest setting (which I believe is 100 yds.) and I would be surpised if you accuracy doesn't improve.

daveboy

[Patrick Chadwick]

An optimized M1917 at 50 yards should give nearly one ragged hole for a group. Say 1".
The battle sight aperture is a CWOA* for target shooting.
Much too large, and set for something like 300 yards (the real figure is probably in Ferris' book somewhere).
And using junk milsurp ammo is a CWOM**.

Assuming that the rifle is mechanically OK ....
Use only the flip-up sight.
The backsight aperture can be improved by gluing on a small washer with a hole about 1.4-1.6 mm diameter (1/16") over the existing hole.
Then slice off about 1/8" of black rubber tubing (or a rubber washer) with an outside diameter no more than 3/8" (otherwise it will foul the battle sight when you set it for 100 yards/meters). Glue that on as well. The idea is to produce a smaller backsight aperture with a bit of shading.
The tricky bit is getting it all centered over the original hole.

Use Pattex/Thixofix or whatever that rubbery impact adhesive is called in your country, as it can all be peeled off later without any damage to the bluing, if you want to restore the rifle to its original state.
Paint the washer-ring combination dead black ("blackboard black") to minimize reflection.
Rest the rifle on a sandbag, on the area behind the lower band where you would have your front hand in a normal shooting position. Resting too far forwards encourages the bad vibrations.
Use the 6 'clock hold. Make sure you can see the foresight blade sharply. Seeing the target sharply is second priority. Sharp foresight and fuzzy target is better than the other way around. If necessary get glasses properly adjusted for shooting requirements. Reading glasses are usually set too short, glasses for car-driving are set too long. Not getting this right is a CWOTMAA***.
Do all this and you should see an immediate and considerable improvement.
Please try it out, and let us know how you get on.

And if you really want to know how you and your rifle GROUP after this, you do not want a spotter scope. In fact, you do not need to see the impact holes at all. Simply set the target at 100 yards and fire a 5 to 10-shot string as evenly as you can, allowing 1 minute between shots, closing your eyes to rest them, WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE TARGET IN BETWEEN. Because if you do look, you can hardly avoid making unconscious corrections ("That last shot was a bit off, better aim a touch higher/lower/left/right"), with the result that the next shot may actually be worse. (Thank you RSM Kilpatrick for teaching me that!). And do not worry about making fine corrections to the sights until you are convinced that you have achieved the best possible group. Group first, position afterwards!


Patrick

PS:
*CWOA = complete waste of ammo
**CWOM = complete waste of that stuff which is no longer backed up by gold
***CWOTMAA = complete waste of time, money and ammo

[Paul1807]

Hello, they should be capable of better than that. I had one glorious 3" three shot group at 200 yards with mine. There are some quirks to them the amount of torque on the front trigger guard screw can affect accuracy particularly if it is loose. There is also the possible of copper fouling or worse cupro nickle fouling in the barrel sweets 7.62 can deal with those. On the plus side the M1917 takes the same front sight as the No1 MkIII SMLE which come in different heights to get a proper zero. Springfield Sporters lists them by height.

[Paul B]

An easy way to see the sights is a pair of glasses with a piece of pinhole lens in front of your shooting eye ,it sound silly but it works ,or try a target patching dot in front of your shooting eye with a hole in it to suit

[Patrick Chadwick]

Sorry Paul B, but I must most respectfully disagree.

What you write is correct if you are using open sights, as you are increasing the depth of field for your eye by reducing the optical aperture. The pinhole itself has no centering effect.

With an M1917 or similar backsight with a backsight hole, the backsight hole IS the aperture. The pinhole on your glasses will make it VERY difficult to line up eyeball/pinhole/backsight aperture/foresight blade/target. It will not have any aperture-reducing/depth-of-field-increasing effect unless it has an optical angle (measured from your eyeball) that is less than the angle occupied by the backsight aperture. At which point, you can no longer center the pinhole with respect to the aperture (i.e. the sight line). And since you cannot clamp your eyeball at a fixed distance from the backsight, the picture varies with the slightest head movement.

I have tried it, and it did not work for me. The washer trick does.

Patrick

[levallois]

I appreciate all the advice and I'll take her back out in the next week or so and try to put some to the test.

John