Drilled bolt handles.

[Bearclaw]

I have tried doing a search on this and couldn't find an answer, not saying it's not there but me and puter's don't mix.
Question, were the bolt heads drilled out on some manufactures of No4's I have just acquired another sportized Savage No4 this has a drilled bolt handle, even though miss-matched Serial No's it appears Savage. I see in tlvaughn post below his Savage which has a drilled bolt head serial No's match.

Myles

Information

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[xa-coupe]

Interesting, I thought it was No 5s that got the drilled handle.

[Son]

There were a few different sorts of bolt knobs/ handles at different times for different reasons. Mr Skennerton 's SAIS (Small Arms Identification Series) book No4 on the .303 Rifle No5 MkI explains that in comparing the No4 bolt with the No5, the No4's bolt knob was usually solid, although some have a 5/16th inch hole. The solid knob could either have a flat spot (where the hole is on others) or be totally round.
The No5 bolt knob was drilled for lightening purposes with a 3/8th inch hole, but after the bolt bodies were declared interchangeable, the small hole bolts could be found on the No5.

Just as an addition, some No5 MkI rifles that saw service and repair in India seemed to have had the bolt knob drilled out further to 7/16th inch. I don't recall ever seeing anything official about this...

As far as the production of the Savage rifles go, I'll leave that specifically to some of the other guys... not my bag.

I understand Ian's got a book out at the moment that compares the differences in components through production. Is this right?

[Thunderbox]

I have tried doing a search on this and couldn't find an answer, not saying it's not there but me and puter's don't mix.
Question, were the bolt heads drilled out on some manufactures of No4's I have just acquired another sportized Savage No4 this has a drilled bolt handle, even though miss-matched Serial No's it appears Savage. I see in tlvaughn post below his Savage which has a drilled bolt head serial No's match.

Myles

The rifle in the photo is a Parker Hale sporter, so it has a very high chance of having had a replacement bolt fitted and numbered to the receiver.

If you are in doubt about the originality of the bolt, post a photo of the number. Its usually easy to discern whether its factory original or a later replacement.

[breakeyp]

...
Just as an addition, some No5 MkI rifles that saw service and repair in India seemed to have had the bolt knob drilled out further to 7/16th inch. I don't recall ever seeing anything official about this...

I am sure your comment on the larger hole is based on owning or observation of a No.5 having seen Indian service (probably it has the transverse screw through the forestock). I have an example as well, along with some of the FE trials run and early Fazackerley production. They all left the factory with the large ( I call it thumb hole) size hole.

The only odd ball bolt ball item I have encountered is a few No.5s along the way where the bolt hole was filled with a hardened material. If I get time I will dig around in the vault and look for it.

[Bearclaw]

Thunderbox, My bolt serial doesn't match, my bolts serial is E7068. How can you tell it is a Parker Hale sporter.

Myles

[Thunderbox]

Thunderbox, My bolt serial doesn't match, my bolts serial is E7068. How can you tell it is a Parker Hale sporter.

Myles

O.k., its a 90% guess... The wood, magazine & sling swivels are all common PH items, and the rifle has the general configuration and appearance of Parker Hale's "Deluxe" (?) grade rifle. (PH had three models: a base model without any chequering, a middle version such as yours, then a "Supreme" model with rosewood endcaps on the forend and pistol grip.)

[Peter Laidler]

As a resulkt of the Pilkington Committee for the simplification of Small Arms meeting, it gave manufacturers to utilise their existing machinery in the best way they felt fit while engaged in the production of small arms and parts. So long as these parts were submitted to inspection and prior approval and were accepted, then that was sufficient. The minor differences were just that, minor manufacturing differences that had no effect on the fit, function or even the codification of the part (they carriedthe same part number).

The desigh spec might have stated that the hole was used as a datum or fixing jig location for some specific machining operation. But if a manufacturer didn't use that or ustilised some other method '.....in order to make the best and most economic useof his existing facilities.....' as I seem to remember how the wording went, then he did just that. I think that hollow and solid bolt handle knobs fall into this simple category,

[Son]

I am sure your comment on the larger hole is based on owning or observation of a No.5 having seen Indian service (probably it has the transverse screw through the forestock). I have an example as well, along with some of the FE trials run and early Fazackerley production. They all left the factory with the large ( I call it thumb hole) size hole.

The only odd ball bolt ball item I have encountered is a few No.5s along the way where the bolt hole was filled with a hardened material. If I get time I will dig around in the vault and look for it.

Paul, yes I have a No5 that has seen service in India. It has a couple of peculiarities, for starters it has been blued to a fairly high quality finish. Besides the transverse screw, the only other hint to India is the tiny, almost microscopic RFI stamped on the top of the elevation dial- other than that it is unmarked. The receiver had been buffed/ polished but not quite enough to remove the original " No5Mk1 ROF (F) 11/44". The serial # is on the r/side of the butt socket, but that's about all the markings on the rifle. The bolt knob is drilled 7/16".

I've had this discussion somewhere before and remember being told the reason behind the bolt knob variations being for both a machining datum and set up differences in the different manufacturers processes. (it may have been Peter telling me then).

[Peter Laidler]

I'[ve mentioned this before but at our HUGE Base workshops in Malaya, we made no difference between the bolts. No hole, a hole and a large hole, they all went on whatever needy rifle came up next. There were two variants of 'the hole' too. A deepish hole that was well chamfered and a shallowish hole. We also had a Chinese foreman called Mr Saw who was just an *** hole! - or was that Staff Sgt Beady............. He wouldn't let me have a Friday off to see my girlfriend Christine. Just because I hadn't ordered the 81mm Mortar spares for the Battalion in Vietnam!