Faking Anyting

[lboos]

Their is an old saying that "if it seem's to good to be true," it probably is.

[old crow]

Like smellie, almost all of my milsurp rifles are what I call 'trench brutes'; functional but not at all fine.

[bearhunter]

smellie, just to put things into perspective, a new in grease 98 mauser, was approximately an average weeks pay in Canada 40 years ago. I was lucky, and made slightly more that 2x that amount after deductions. In 1969, factory fresh crates of K98 mausers with BYF 42-44 marks, could be purchased along with all of the accessories for $125/crate. 8 rifles in wax paper wrap, tied with red ribbons, matching bayonets and slings wrapped in a sealed wax paper wrap. The numbers in the crate, were sequential.
Considering what you could buy with that money back then, the $40 you paid for that rifle is about what anyone making $30-$35/hour today, would pay for a pristine example. Not that much has changed.

[Bill Hollinger]

Great thread! I love all the great opinions here. Thanks guys!

[mike16]

I will not name names but there is a company the restores M1 rifles, carbines and 03/a3's.Thier work is absolutly top notch and the rifles are really beautiful. but the inspection stamps and rifle proof stamps on the stocks are fakes. They look better than origionals. and are correct for the date of manufacture. fake but real beauties. and the price is very reasonable.

[phil441]

I think I'll give up guns and start collecting lawnmowers. Anyone know if they're being humped yet?

[bearhunter]

I won't say it doesn't happen, but there aren't a lot of "fake" milsurps in Canada. There are a lot of refurbs here, just like most places. We don't have the CMP either but from what I can tell, that may not be such a bad thing. If the CMP is the only thing there is to fall back on for verification, there will be a huge gap in knowledge as well as collectible surplus firearms.

I honestly don't have a problem with rifles that have been put together from original parts. They are also pretty easy to spot, in most cases.

I can understand people wanting to own certain firearms and the lengths they will go to get one, real or not. In many cases, it would cost more to build the fake than a real collectible is worth. Many of these firearms went through all sorts of modifications in their life spans. Not all were done by armorers and some were. Look at the Turkish milsurps, just about anything can be encountered on them. Does that make them wrong? Many of those Turks were modified to keep them working when available parts supplies ran out. It seems that they bought huge quantities of firearms but cannibalised them to keep the rest going. Other nations did the same thing of course but the Turks were masters of innovation. They even converted Lee Enfields to shoot the 8x57 mauser and fitted fore ends, barrels, Mauser style rear sights and upper hand guards as well as extensive magazine modifications. I've only seen pics of them but I would love to own one. These are bubbas. They were made up from cannibalised parts. What rating do we give them? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, for whatever reason, pass on it.

In the end it's your choice. By the way, I don't like it when a firearm is passed off as being original if it isn't. Many people just don't know what they have. Unlike most on this board, they do little or no research. Their pennies are pinched and to tell the truth, they bought the story rather than the firearm. When they pass it on, the story gets better every time it changes hands. In their minds, they don't want cold hard facts because that dulls the charisma of the tale.

[BamBam91fsc]

Just my 2 cents.

I cannot afford a real #4MkI T, so I am building one. It is an FTR's Maltby with mismatched pieces and parts. I bought an ATI mount, a cheek piece from Numrich Gun Parts, and a Weaver K2.5 scope, Weaver rings, and a 1907 type sling from Triple K. It is not even close to correct in any way. At a glance and feel it is close enough and will cost me less than $400, when I am done.

I cannot guarantee that someone will not try to scam it off as real T sometime in the future; but that would be like thinking a fiber glass body on a VW frame is a real Porsche. If you think that I have a bridge I would like to sell ya...

I think making facsimiles is fine. No real way to confuse the two. Reproductions are by nature supposed to look as close as possible to the real thing. The best reproduction is the same as an original. Intent is what differentiates the two. One is an investment the other is a fraud. Reputable reproductionist should incorporate inconsistencies into the repro. AKA the Gibbs 1903A4. The new barrel has a Gibbs crest stamped on it. The scope has different marking and adjustments. A knowledgable collector will see those marks and know that it is a reproduction. (not to mention that the original receiver markings were left and not stamped off center from the mounts, etc...)

Buyer be ware!
If it is too good to be true it probably is.
Knowledge is power.

Simply, know what you are about!

[vintage hunter]

Forging collectable items is something that has been going on since the year dot. It will most likely continue till the end of mankind's existance. There are two main motives behind this: 1, MONEY. 2, The overwhelming desire to have an example of an item that can't otherwise obtained. It would be quite easy to put the con artist type fakers out of bussiness. The best way to do this is to simply educate one's self on the thing they wish to aquire BEFORE they jump the gun and buy the first one they trip over. In this modern day and age of the computer and the internet this is easy to do. Not everyone is rich enough or lucky enough to be able to obtain original examples of the objects of their desire. Thats where the second motive of forgery comes into play. There are two rifles i have always dreamed of owning. One of these i will likely never own and the other is only remotely possible. So, I built replicas. Pretty d@#* good ones too. They're not spot on matches but very close. I built them to enjoy, not to attempt to deceive some "newbie" with so don't be condemning me for doing the best i can.