No4 Mk2 Irish Contract

[Boom-Boom]

I have a new specimen in great shape with tight bore that I took out for shooting.

When looking at centering group, I noticed that there's no front sight screw for blade tensioning.

With all other No4 it is a breeze to unscrew, loosen up blade and reset in place.

Is it normal fashion?? Easy to remove front sight assembly and replace with common one??.

Tks,

BB

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Do you mean that
a) there is a hole, but no screw?
In which case you need (I think) a 4BA screw of appropriate length, and you seem to be living in the wrong time zone to find one easily, let alone cheaply?

or
b) there is no hole?
According to Stratton, the screwless version was used primarily on wartime Savage and Long Branch Mk 1s. One would certainly not expect it on a very late No. 4 Mk 2. In which case, quite apart from the possibility of relacing what you have by the proper foresight block assembly, it would be advisable to look over the entire rifle very carefully for other anamolies. Maybe someone has been creative with spares at some time?

To replace: remove the foresight protector screw. The foresight protector is the "ears". Then slide off the foresight protector.
The foresight block band is held on by a 0.1" diameter pin that you will have to drive out (I think from left to right - someone please correct me if I am wrong!) You can then slide off the foresight block. Ha! Ha! Some hope! - You will probably have to "persuade" it with a piece of hard wood and a sharp tap on the wood with a plastic hammer. Not that it will be rusted - it's just that after half a century any grease has long since turned into a kind of resin! So soak the whole foresight assembly with penetrating oil and leave overnight before you start the job.

[Thunderbox]

The solid foresight blocks do appear on late Mk2s - I've had several fairly mint rifles with this type of block.

Its perfectly normal. You just need to use the foresight blades with a split base, if you need to change the elevation setting. No point in replacing the block.

[Boom-Boom]

Hi see below for replies.

tks,


BB

Do you mean that
a) there is a hole, but no screw? There is no hole at all. Similar to P14 or US M1917.
In which case you need (I think) a 4BA screw of appropriate length, and you seem to be living in the wrong time zone to find one easily, let alone cheaply?

or
b) there is no hole? It shows all correct PF SN 3093XX with matching bolt and mag and wood.
According to Stratton, the screwless version was used primarily on wartime Savage and Long Branch Mk 1s. One would certainly not expect it on a very late No. 4 Mk 2. In which case, quite apart from the possibility of relacing what you have by the proper foresight block assembly, it would be advisable to look over the entire rifle very carefully for other anamolies. Maybe someone has been creative with spares at some time?

To replace: remove the foresight protector screw. The foresight protector is the "ears". Then slide off the foresight protector.
The foresight block band is held on by a 0.1" diameter pin that you will have to drive out (I think from left to right - someone please correct me if I am wrong!) You can then slide off the foresight block. Ha! Ha! Some hope! - You will probably have to "persuade" it with a piece of hard wood and a sharp tap on the wood with a plastic hammer. Not that it will be rusted - it's just that after half a century any grease has long since turned into a kind of resin! So soak the whole foresight assembly with penetrating oil and leave overnight before you start the job.

[Boom-Boom]

Rifle is really mint with previous owner unwrapping and firing few shots only.

Would like to use similar front sight system as per other MK1s I have.

tks,

BB

The solid foresight blocks do appear on late Mk2s - I've had several fairly mint rifles with this type of block.

Its perfectly normal. You just need to use the foresight blades with a split base, if you need to change the elevation setting. No point in replacing the block.

[Peter Laidler]

In truth, the only difference between the split and solid foresight block bands is that one holds the blade in place with friction and the other is held in place with even MORE friction.

But be warned before you leap, that foresight block bands are not quite that simple. You MUST have an exact match if you want to nbe able to continue zeroing your rifle. I suggest that you read and then RE-read an article I wrote on the differences between all 6 types............. yes, 6 types that the unwary might not even realise exist.

Maybe someone can resurrect the article for Boom Boom

[Boom-Boom]

I have another question regarding same rifle.

SN falls right under Stratton's starting number for Irish Contract.

I was dead sure about IC as contract source but now, I am puzzled
There's a block of 5000 rifles with missing destination right between Sudan and Irish Contract.

Anybody can help please.

tks,

BB

[Thunderbox]

I have another question regarding same rifle.

SN falls right under Stratton's starting number for Irish Contract.

I was dead sure about IC as contract source but now, I am puzzled
There's a block of 5000 rifles with missing destination right between Sudan and Irish Contract.

Anybody can help please.

tks,

BB

None of the "contracts" appear to have gone further than a UK depot, followed a few years later by sale into the surplus market. The contracts list merely appears to have been an early sales projection by the Ministry of Supply (as was), and "gaps" or other discrepancies may have no significance at all. The only numbers with some sort of history appear to be the PF 4xx,xxx series, which appear to have been created by the sale of un-numbered action bodies to the UK gun trade.

[jrhead75]

None of the "contracts" appear to have gone further than a UK depot...

Some seem to have at least been issued to someone. I've got an issued (no telling who to, I'll admit) Mk2 in the Irish Contract range, and there are certainly photos and anecdotal evidence out there of Irish reservists with No.4 Mk2s. Now whether or not those were actual "Irish Contract" rifles is up for further research/debate. Several years back there was a gent on one of the other boards that claimed to have the full story of Irish rifles and was in the process of writing a book. I've been waiting patiently, but so far...nothing. I hope he comes through.

[Peter Laidler]

Thunderbox is quite right if I understand him. This so called 'Irish Contract' is a bit of a play on words because the Ministry of Supply, a Government body no less, in the Government factories, didn't make this stuff for anyone else except the Government, to Government orders and contracts. And from there, it all went into Goverment stores depots. From there, the various friendly (and subsequently not so bloody friendly......) Governments/nations would ask UK Government to supply, say, 1,500 No4 rifles and xyz machine guns. It'd be approved and they'd be shipped as in the normal course of business. They HAD to go to the Government for their No4 rifles because BSA were not permitted to make new rifles after their last Government contract was completed because they were a commercial company and were simply sub contractors - same as the L1A1 contracts stipulated. BSA came unstuck by unwittingly (so said ?) continuing the manufacture of No8 rifles on a commercial basis in the 50's after the completion of their UK MoS contract.

The No4 rifles were a UK MoS contract and many were possibly sold to Ireland

As for the 'sale/disposal' of unnumbered, unproofed(?) highly accountable and strictly controlled bodies to the equally accountable and strictly controlled gun trade, well, that's another fairy story I have never quite understood............... Mind you, I haven't been in the Armouring business that long