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T S T V Mauser?
I may be looking at a Mauser described as a TSTV with Mauser banner on the side by bolt handle with all matching numbers. I Have learned it's a home guard type rifle and also maybe in/or should be chambered in 8.15 x 57. The draw back is the bluing has some spots and the stock has been cut (duffel bag cut?). Any info and advice as to whether I should purchase as the price is a little over $100. also it has a sticker on but that is not readable but seller seems to think this was some kind of presentation rifle? Thankx.
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01-27-2011 08:26 AM
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Could be Veerrry interesting
8.15x57???
I think you should check on that. I cannot find any trace of a cartridge 8.15x57. It is also vital to establish whether or not it is a rimmed cartridge. I found mention of an 8.2x57 rimless, without any information on where/why/when it was used. But there were several now-obsolete rimmed cartridges in the "approx. 8mm" family. Most desirable is the 8.15x46R cartridge - the German
equivalent to the 32-40, which, in the imprecise manner of such designations, was also sometimes described as 8.2mm. It was also known as the "Frohnpatrone", from the designer, or "Schützenpatrone", as it was popular with target shooters.
As well as plenty of commercial hunting and target rifles, there was a service rifle known as the "Wehrmanngewehr" that was chambered for this cartridge. This was intended for ex-soldiers on the reserve list, to keep up their shooting skills without letting 98s out of military hands. It looks just like a Gewehr 98, but with a flat tangent sight instead of the high-curving "lange Visier". If you find one of those, I can assure you that they have considerably more collector value than a normal Gewehr 98. And reloading gear, cases and bullets are available.
But if it is in some other obsolete chambering, then the yardstick is "if it is not listed by CH tool and die, forget it".
You mentioned something about a presentation, and the chances are that the seller has made a mistake in the chambering. 8.15x46R would be a very likely chambering for a presentation rifle to a "schuetzen" or retired soldier. And after your experience with the percussion rifle DaveN, you are surely not put off by spots on the bluing, or even a duffle cut - Claven 2 will talk you through that one. TSTV is likely to be an abbreviation for TST (whoever that is) Verein i.e. society or club. Or (getting more speculative) the T... Sport- und Turn-Verein, i.e. the T... Sporting and Gymnastics Club.
Having said all that, if you live in a country without restrictions on the number of old service rifles you can buy, then my advice would be: if it is all there, and the bore is not hopeless, and it is going for a wall-hanger price - get it!
---------- Post added at 04:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 PM ----------
DaveN, if you get it, then please post GOOD pictures of the markings and the label, and I will try to decipher it.
Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 01-27-2011 at 10:40 AM.
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tthankx again Patrick. the seller was going to check the caliber as I read it after googleing TSTV Mauser and reading on a sight that looks a little like milsurps . they spoke of clubs in 1918 and home defense and the like and the word Standschutzen. that is when the 8.15mm was mentioned and something about target shooting. you are right ,the price is right even though it may be a wall hanger.
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OK, so enough theory - get it and make the pics!
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T.S.T.V or T.ST.V.
Indeed jmoore, it could well be that kind of thing. But until DaveN produces some pictures we are not going to make much progress.
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Patients my friends patients. My photos seem to be done in haste so by the time I see this rifle I will snap some shots if I don't buy it, though at the price I don't see why I won't and if at home I'll try to do a better job as i need a tripod. My old tripod was nackered.
Last edited by DaveN; 01-28-2011 at 10:17 PM.
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Jackpot! Identified T.ST.V
DaveN, you really have scored a winner!
It looks completely genuine.
Normally I want rifles to be in good shooting condition, and am not worried much about the exterior. In this case, there is a lot of history revealed by the exterior, and this is one case where I would go along with the collectors and say
DO NOT REFINISH IT
- just clean it gently, and do not touch the stickers - they are very fragile and provide valuable information. Clean the bore properly of course!
Although markings on metal can be(relatively) easily faked to fool the non-expert, faking the stickers would be work for for a master forger who would have more profitable things to do.
The rifle is indeed an example of what is is generically known as a "Wehrmannsgewehr" in the "Schuetzen" caiiber 8,15x46, as predicted. Whether originally made as such or converted from a '98 rifle or carbine - difficult to tell, as you did not post a full-length photo. As anyone who has a copy of Ball's book knows, the numbers of variations on the theme of Mauser is enormous.
The group of 4 proof marks: crown over B, G, U and N respectively indicates
B = proof in finished condition, must have U as a pre-condition.
G = proof for rifled barrel
U = proof mark
This was not used after 1939, so the rifle was made long before the date of the stickers.
N = nitro proof
This was also changed in 1939 to a Nazi-style eagle.
Likewise the B and U marks on the bolt handle, which also shows the rifle's number U578.
The rifle was made years before the stickers were applied. No great surprise there - in 1944, when the invasion of France ws in full swing, I doubt that gunsmiths had much time for making private rifles.
The rectanguler sticker says:
Landesschiessen (i.e. regional shooting competition for the Land)
(over Nazi eagle)
Innsbruck, 2-16. Juli 1944
The Land is, of course, Tirol.
See the oval sticker.
Standschützen Verra???Tirol-Vorarlberg
???Schiessstand (i.e. shooting range)
??? was probably a place name.
This would appear to be a club sticker, dating from before the Innsbruck sticker.
(Vorarlberg is the Land between Tirol and Switzerand)
I also see traces of yet another sticker, to the left of the oval sticker.
These are not presentation stickers, but the kind of sticker still used today, when a rifle is inspected and accepted before the competition.
Many shooters leave them on the butt as "been there, done that" evidence.
Finally, the T.ST.V mark that started it all.
Although it is all in capitals, It is actually T.St.V.
This can be found in Germany and Austria as the abbreviation for
"Technische StudentenVerbindung"
Difficult to transfer to other cultures, but this is a student body in a university (in this case, technical/engineering/scientific students). Something like an American fraternity. Reputed (especiallY in those days) to be very conservative, very patriotic, and therefore by no means politically neutral. The kind of student body where the members wear pill-box caps, uniforms, and practice duelling with swords. You have surely seen such in Hollywood films!
And there is a University of Innsbruck!
And still such a body! (not necessarily the same one)
K.T.St.V. Alemannia. Siebererstraße 7b. A-6020 Innsbruck
Bingo!
Congratulations!
Patrick
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PM
the metal is bad and need to know what to do. I want to leave as a possible vet bring back as per the duffel cut and at $120 I dought it's fake.
if you look at the stock (were it is suposed to be cut) I'm not sure it isn't broken? If you need a more detailed photo/phptos I'l take some later and post.
