VICTORY MODEL? 45 and R on barrel

[DaveN]

I am having a hard time identifying this. It seems to have alot of stampings and I didn't even see the stamp under the cylinder on the left side that reads notenglishmake I was thinking victory model. The R on the barrel is hard to see and sorry the pics of the barrel aren't good.

Information

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[Johnny Peppers]

That is not a Victory model. It was probably bought prior to the U.S. entry into WWII by the British Purchasing Commission. The British were desperate for weapons during the early days of WWII and raided the shelves of virtually U.S. pistol maker. They even bought Colt Single Action Army pistols. The pistol shown is a S&W .38/44 Heavy Duty.
The local gun shop had a S&W M&P with British proofs which was also a British Purchasing Commission pistol.

[DaveN]

Johnny, you say .38/44 but it has a 45 and some space and then a A and partial R on the barrel so it reads 45 A R and I know it is a big caliber for sure my 45acp gauges it perfect the cylinder is about 3/8 inch longer then the acp round and of course it falls right through the cylinder. the top part of the R is showing ,I don't think it's a P cause there seems to be microscopic parts of the R that these eyes barley make out. But I've been wrong before. Can you give me any info on all the proof marks and what they mean.BV BP NP in circles with crown above and I looked closer and the ones on the cylinder are alternated using all three. A U4 no circle and a crown with what I describe as a propeller on a stick above it. and an X with a D and a 3 in left and lower 90 of the X. and of course the NOTENGILSHMAKE. If some one can enlighten me on this it would be cool.

I did have a feeling cause the grips seemed civilian in nature. I will be going to the gun shop for other reason but will take it along to see if its shootable and a caliber check, as I know the Brits used .455.

I just looked at the SW .44 Hand Ejector 1st model and it seems to be the one. In comparison its identical with the heavier ejector shroud that the 2nd edition does not have. Made 1908-1915. this one has a 3 or 4 didget ser#.

[Johnny Peppers]

You didn't show a caliber marking unless it was the shot that was too blurry to see. You called it a Victory model and all Victory models were .38 caliber. Could you show a picture of the caliber marking?

[DaveN]

the 5 in 45 looks to be double struck. and the top writing at front site is missing some of the first letters and i wonder if the barrel was shortened. it measures 5 3/8 from end to end but is 5inch if from frame to end. not sure where the measurement is taken. the book said they came in 5 and 6.5 lengths and rare 4inch.

[emmagee1917]

BV - Birmingham View mark , passed visual inspection , BP- Birmingham Definitive Proof , passed low preassure firing , NP- Birmingham Nitro Proof , passed smokeless powder proof. Crossed pennants , military proof . Broad arrow , military ownership mark. Curved barbs dates to WW1 era , other marks post 1925 to pre 1955 era. I would guess this was made in .455 , due to the broad arrow mark , then perhaps rechambered to .45 Auto-rim when shipped here ( hence the crude 45 AR stamp) , due to the lack of .455 here and the higher cost of it. Just a guess , though. It could have been made in .45 ACP orig.
Chris

[DaveN]

Thank U, Thank U, at first I was considering buying it myself cause the victory pistols were cheap in the book. but in Identifying it as a .44 Hand ejector mod 1 the price for a poor condition is $500 fair 750 good 1300 vg 2000 exc 4000. I think this is poor to fair. The trick is to get some one who wants to buy it and for the honest price. Good news for my friend that its worth more than 1st thought. Is 45 AR the same as 45 colt. The gun shop thought it was 45 long colt and put a round in it and seemed to fit.

[Johnny Peppers]

The original caliber markings have been removed, and the .45 A R is undoubtedly for .45 Auto, and was crudely hand stamped. The pistol has lost all it's collector value, so proceed as if it is a shooter. .44 Special caliber used a .429 bullet where the .45 ACP/AR used a .451 bullet.
The pistol shows the British broad-arrow property mark, and then the British commercial proofs when it was sold out of military stores.

[DaveN]

I can assure you it is not 45 acp as the cylinder is too long and an acp round when inserted into cylinder goes through and falls to the floor. it is 45 colt. I do however think the barrel was replaced or at least monkeyed about with (like you saidpossibly for the American market) or at least shortened as the S and part of the M in smith is missing indicating that something is a miss. It also could be that the brits crudely marked the barrel 45 AR so they would not put the .455 in the wrong gun over their and the barrel work was done cause they just needed a shorter gun or it was shortened some time after but at a time when collectors weren't in mind such as to meet their needs you know what with the WAR and what not.

[browningautorifle]

Apparently during the war, early on, there was a drive for guns for the English. They were donated from households all over North America. Everything came out to play. These guns used a half moon clip for the 45 ammo so it would be held in place. Now we use a full moon clip for all six instead of three each. Back here in North America the clips cost too much. It was common to run a 45 long Colt chamber ream into a 45 auto cylinder because the clips were not needed then. Yes, the barrel has been shortened and the sight reattached. Just about everything about this gun has been altered. I would be hard pressed to pay $300 for it. It's a neat old gun but just a shooter.