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Thread: Pin Falls, Bullet doesn't fly

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  1. #1
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    Pin Falls, Bullet doesn't fly

    Just fully disassembled, cleaned and oiled M1icon. The pin was not broken and I've tried numerous ammo. The pin actually puts a VERY SMALL dent in the primer, but not enough to discharge the powder.

    Looking at the manual posted on this site I noted that the one remaining thing Uncle Sam said to check was if it was cleaned/oiled. It is...

    Any thoughts???

    Could it be the trigger spring isn't strong enough? Can I buy one of those?

    Thanks!
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    Legacy Member imarangemaster's Avatar
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    If the headspace is excessive, it will cause that form of FTF (Failure To Fire). the bullet in not seating tight against the front ridge in the chamber. Also, another common cause is dried cosmolene in the firing pin chamber in the bolt. Check it it moves freely, and see how far the firing pin protrudes from the bolt when in the forward position. If the firing pin does not protrude very much, disassemple and soak in brake cleaner. You can use a pipe cleaner to clean the FP chamber in the bolt. While I doubt if it is the problem, hammer springs can be had cheap. The newer 26 coil springs are best.
    Last edited by imarangemaster; 03-03-2011 at 06:38 AM.

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    Ammo factory or reloads?

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    Thread Starter
    They are my FILs reloads. I haven't had probs with his reloads for 9 mm, 38/357, or 45 acp. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I'll ask tomorrow at the range if I can buy a box of theirs. Good idea.

    I took the bolt completely apart, cleaned and oiled it.

    But how would I check the seating of the bullet? On thinking about it, when I open the breach the unfired shell doesn't come out. But I'm guessing that is b/c it didn't shoot.

    I am also guessing the trigger spring isn't the problem; I'm just grasping. But where could I buy one if I need to?

    Thank you both so much for answering. I really appreciate it since I'm such a newb!

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    If the shell is not being removed from the chamber by the extractor, chances are it does have excessive headspace, too much length between chamber face and bolt face. This can allow the bullet not to be picked up by the extractor. A broken/weak extractor can exacerbate this, as. You really need to have the headspace checked. Where di you get it? It does not sound like a CMPicon carbine because they are headpsaced.

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    Since reloads, I would guess the cases were trimmed a bit too short, so your headspace is effectively too long. Carbine headspaces on the case mouth. Cases shouldn't be any shorter than 1.280" (according to SAAMI)
    Last edited by CrossedCannons; 03-04-2011 at 08:58 AM.

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    If you try factory ammo it should be OK. That's how you check anyway, then there can't be any doubt.
    Regards, Jim

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    It would have to be very short for the FP to do this. In practice, the extractor grabs the case and it holds the case close so the thing should fire. Hatcher points this out and sites the .45 as an example. Perhaps there is a chip or burr on the extractor that is stopping it from grabbing that case. Also, the FP could be broken or worn. I just received a used Inland FP that looked great but was worn down and chipped on the end. An M2 could eat up a FP after a lot of use. It sounds like the carbine isn't reaching full battery.

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    3 suspects: hard grease, roll crimp, worn extractor

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossedCannons View Post
    Carbine headspaces on the case mouth.

    - Which is a tricky business. If, for instance, the case has been crimped ever-so-slightly-too-much, then there is no step remaing at the case mouth for it to headspace on! As has been pointed out, in a properly functioning rifle, the extractor (normally) holds the case back (just about enough) so that the primer will (mostly) be detonated. All the modifying remarks in brackets are to emphasize that it is NOT a "sure-fire" thing.

    I do not have a 30M1 carbine, but I do have a Luger, which can suffer similar problems for similar reasons.
    I suggest you:
    1) use a watchmaker's eyeglass to examine the case mouths on unfired examples of the cartridges you have been using.
    2) try out the rifle with a couple of cartridges crimped as lightly as possible with a taper crimp (NOT roll-crimp, of course) in single-shot mode.
    3) check that the firing pin can protrude enough. Less than about 2mm could mean a worn (or broken off and reshaped) pin.

    Of course, the answer (as has also been pointed out) could be that the bolt assembly has hardened grease inside, which acts as a damper to slow down the firing pin AND restrict its forward movement. When I got my Martini-Henry, the pin crept up to the cartridge base, and could not puncture a paper bag. I dismantled the action, scraped out the fossilized "yakolene" (it really was that bad), washed it all out with acetone, dried, regreased and reassembled it - and it worked perfectly. The answer to your problem may be that simple!

    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 03-04-2011 at 12:33 PM.

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    Just to eliminate one variable: verify that in it's forward position the firing pin protrudes .048 to .065" from the bolt face.

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