2- groove vs 4-groove barrel

[Calfed]

I recently bought an RA 2/44 NIW 03A3 and an HS 5/44 new "out of the wrap" 1903 barrel.


The 2/44 RA barrel was sold as a 2-groove. As a test, I tapped a .308 reloading bullet into the muzzle to check to make sure that is was a 2 groove


I expected two rather narrow marks in the bullet and was surprised by the width of the two marks. I then tapped a bullet into the muzzle of the HS 4-groove barrel and found 4 much smaller marks on it.


Am I correct in believing that the lands on the RA 2-groove barrel are much wider than the lands on the 4-groove HS? The marks left by the lands on the bullet would lead me to believe that the lands on the 2-groove barrel are 3 or 4 times as wide as the 4-groove lands.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[browningautorifle]

When you look at the two groove barrel there is a pronounced absence of the other two grooves. The land takes the entire width of that area. Yes, the land is massive.

[RedBird08]

In regard to Remington 03A3 2 groove and 4 groove production, from what I have read on the various forums it appears as if the following applies :

(Please correct me if I have this wrong)

Remington produced 4 Groove barrels on the early 03A3's then switched over to 2 groove sometime in late 43 or early to mid 44. This change was mandated by the Ordnance Department to save money. Remington was able to adapt to the change because the scrape cutting method they used was adaptable to changing over to 2 groove configuration.

Broach cutting, used in the production of Smith Corona and High Standard barrels (used on SC rifles) was not as adaptable to the change over and they received an exception to continue production of 4 groove barrels.

In 1944, Remington switched to broach cutting their barrels, and some some of their replacement barrels were made by them in 4G configuration again....

There has also been alteration of original Remington 2 groove barrels to 4 groove, as an after market operation.

I have a Remington 03A3 with an original 4G barrell dated 9/43. I am confident it was original to the gun.......... But I have no idea when Remington's first run of 4 groove barrels was used up on their original WW2 production issue rifles.

Any thoughts or corrections out there ?

Thanks
RB8

[Mike D]

From what I understand -

Rem transitioned to 2 groove barrels in mid-43. I believe any barrel made in '44 is 2-g, unless altered. I think Sarco did some of that. You might not find any 4-g barrels dated later than 9-43, end of the transition.

SC did not make their own barrels, they were made for them by High Standard, but stamped SC, not HS. First barrels were 6-g. Transitioned to 4-g in early '43, which were used throughout production. 2-g barrels were made briefly, known examples are dated 11-43.

[JGaynor]

"This change was mandated by the Ordnance Department to save money."

Well, of course, time is money but the real reason for going from 4 groove to 2 groove was to boost production throughput by saving machine and operator time. When ordnance determined that accuracy and useful life did not suffer they made the number of grooves optional.

Also toward the end of Remington's WW2 production the company experimented with button rifling and used that technique to produce thousands of barrels. They found that the button method yielded a much higher output (40 to 60 barrels per hour vs 24 using the scrape cutters) and longer tool life (scrape cutters were good for about 50 barrels before resharpening and they could be resharpened about 10 times or a life of 500 barrels. The buttons were good for upwards of 3000 barrels).

Regards,

Jim