+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: BCD BNZ 4 Single Rune

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,844
    Local Date
    04-24-2024
    Local Time
    01:45 PM

    BCD BNZ 4 Single Rune

    Any idea to that?


    Rifle is not matching numbers, bore rusty.
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    20131k98's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last On
    08-19-2011 @ 08:50 AM
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    3
    Local Date
    04-24-2024
    Local Time
    06:45 AM
    Promo,your k98 is a double-code produced jointly by Gustloff and Steyr-Daimler-Punch in 1944.the single rune is there because to my knowledge it was reworked for or under SS supervision.theres a book that i get much info from you may already know of.the book is called Backbone of the Wehrmacht which is still available.im no expert but hope i was of some help to you.your rifle i think is very rare and i wouldnt let it get away.always keep it in its original configuration you will be glad later.

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Legacy Member m4a3sherman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last On
    10-09-2023 @ 11:29 PM
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Age
    35
    Posts
    254
    Real Name
    Ben
    Local Date
    04-24-2024
    Local Time
    06:45 AM
    Wow, a nice find indeed. Anything with an SS rune generally commands a premium. As 2013k98 stated above, this is indeed a double manufactured Kar98kicon by both Steyr and Gustloff. If you have a copy of Backbone of the Wehrmacht, look on page 239. According to the book, there was a limited production run of roughly 2000 or so (based on serial number observation) as a joint endeavor by Gustloff and Steyr.

    As you may or may not know, both of these manufacturers were centered around large concentration camp systems in Germany and relied heavily on slave labor as the war went on. Gustloff was near Weimar in central Germany where the Buchenwald KL was located. Steyr, which had exsisted in Austriaicon before the war, utilized the labor supplies within the Mauthausen-Gusen KL system (more widely known for production of the V2 rockets and other "secret weapons"). The SS, especially Himmler, had always wanted to create a sort of State within a State with an Army within the Army. To do this, it was decided that the SS would need to have its own munitions supplies manufactured under its personal supervision. This had been, to begin with, largely ignored and at times, flat out refused by the Armaments Board who understood how much it would take to actually set up factories within the Concentration camp system, the intended source of labor for this SS "grand scheme." Nevertheless, as the war went on and factories were bombed out by the Allies, Himmler was given license to attempt to kick-start his plan. In Poland, mostly well known was Auschwitz where a large industrial complex was constructed by IG Farben, at the time, one of the largest chemical companies in the world.
    The concentration camp system, in general, was wide spread with sometimes thousands of sub-camps (of which more and more are being discovered and documented to this day) and transit camps set up to feed the parent camp. Within these sub-camps, there were smaller workshops and assembly stations were parts were usually built in part or in whole, and then sent to another place for further assembly. It can be thought of as a sort of highly disorganized assembly line, highly prone to sabotage by brave individuals.
    In the end, the concept was more or less a total failure in that it did not meet the original goals of the SS which had been to total supplement their arms supply. Still, tens of thousands of arms were produced at the various camps not limited to K98s. Ammunition, submachineguns, pistols, you name it, all had quantities produced at concentration camps at one time or another. That is not to say that these arms are common; remember that the Germans produced around 12 Million Kar98ks alone during the reign of the Third Reich and not all of them are marked as such. The best way to denote one is by manufacturer for a complete known list ( though there are still a few imperfections as the world is still uncovering new information about this subject) you should definitely pick up a copy of Backbone of the Wehrmacht by Richard Law. It's a great read and if you have any interest in the rifles as a whole, you'll love the book.

    Anyway, I hope that helped to give you sort of an abridged history or a little information about your rifle. There is still more to know about it I am sure, but for that, we will need more photos! As was said before, no matter the condition, you have in your possession a very telling piece of history and I would not let it get away.

  6. #4
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,844
    Local Date
    04-24-2024
    Local Time
    01:45 PM
    Thread Starter
    Masherman,

    As I live about 70km away from where the "BNZ" plant was located in WWII I'm a bit familiar with their production, but I'm not specialized in those rifles. My main interest is how rare this rifle really is. I was also being told that such rifles were never matching numbers (as this one is - different number on handguard, stock, barrel band, buttplate, magazine floor, bolt and barrel/sight, can someone confirm that? Also, the bore has seen better days, but won't going to shoot it.

  7. #5
    Legacy Member kar98k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    02-13-2021 @ 05:50 PM
    Location
    PHX
    Posts
    327
    Local Date
    04-24-2024
    Local Time
    06:45 AM
    i'm leery about this one. "bnz" font doesn't look correct and the rune is not the right shape.
    Last edited by kar98k; 06-02-2011 at 02:13 PM.

  8. #6
    Legacy Member m4a3sherman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last On
    10-09-2023 @ 11:29 PM
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Age
    35
    Posts
    254
    Real Name
    Ben
    Local Date
    04-24-2024
    Local Time
    06:45 AM
    I should think that the numbers would match on anything rearsenaled by the Germans at an official factory but I could be mistaken. Often bolts mismatch but not so many other parts. However, if worked near the close of the war, anything goes...

  9. #7
    Contributing Member Aragorn243's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:35 PM
    Location
    Pennsylvania, United States
    Posts
    7,020
    Real Name
    Steve
    Local Date
    04-24-2024
    Local Time
    07:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by kar98k View Post
    i'm leery about this one. "bnz" font doesn't look correct and the rune is not the right shape.
    The "b" in the bnz is not the same as the "b" in the bcd and the "n" is oversized. BUT if you look at the photo on page 239 it does not look out of the question by any means. That one as well seems to show an oversized "n" and it is obviously hand stamped as the spacing is not correct. The rune looks very much like the one shown on page 236 although it is a bit out of alignment.

  10. #8
    Legacy Member kar98k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    02-13-2021 @ 05:50 PM
    Location
    PHX
    Posts
    327
    Local Date
    04-24-2024
    Local Time
    06:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn243 View Post
    The "b" in the bnz is not the same as the "b" in the bcd and the "n" is oversized. BUT if you look at the photo on page 239 it does not look out of the question by any means. That one as well seems to show an oversized "n" and it is obviously hand stamped as the spacing is not correct. The rune looks very much like the one shown on page 236 although it is a bit out of alignment.
    Backbone of the Wehrmacht is riddled with inaccuracies so that book isn't always helpful. there is more than one rifle in that book that has been faked.

  11. #9
    Contributing Member Aragorn243's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:35 PM
    Location
    Pennsylvania, United States
    Posts
    7,020
    Real Name
    Steve
    Local Date
    04-24-2024
    Local Time
    07:45 AM
    Admittedly, the photos show sloppy workmanship which is uncharacteristic of the Germans. I'm not qualified to judge these by any means, I'm just making comparisons. Obviously if taking a $200 rifle and turning it into one worth thousands is just a matter of some stamps, great care has to be taken.

    As for the numbers not matching, being built that way seems very unlikely. Why bother making the effort to stamp something and then not put it together. The book says the SN is on the barrel, the bolt top, the bolt sleeve, the cocking piece and the safety.
    Last edited by Aragorn243; 06-02-2011 at 04:04 PM.

  12. #10
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,844
    Local Date
    04-24-2024
    Local Time
    01:45 PM
    Thread Starter
    Kar98kicon,

    The double code K98k recievers were pre-marked by the maker, meaning now the bcd. The additional markings (bnz) were hand stamped, look for other dual code recievers, they're marked exactly the same way. I do not even think of a fake as this rifle spent the last 40 years hanging in a private "Museum" which is being dissolved. I personally took it off the wall for the first time.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Questions about single shot adapters
    By RBruce in forum M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-26-2010, 02:40 PM
  2. Single Vrs Double hook F.C.G.
    By broomhandle in forum Soviet Bloc Rifles
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-06-2010, 08:48 AM
  3. Romanian Single Shot
    By Pattern14 in forum .22 Smallbore
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-25-2009, 10:24 AM
  4. Colt Single Action Army
    By Greg V in forum The Watering Hole OT (Off Topic) Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-22-2009, 11:48 AM
  5. The single pressure thing.
    By Nate in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-17-2009, 07:10 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts