"Jungle Carbine" - Origin

[Beerhunter]

I inadvertently called my Rifle No.5 a Jungle Carbine on Sunday but it got me thinking. (Please forgive me if someone has been over all this ground before.)

We all know that "Jungle Carbine" was never an official designation but rather nickname. The first piece of evidence that it was simply a "lighter, handier" weapon than the No.4, rather than specifically designed for use in "the Jungle", is that all the early photos that I have seen, show No.5s in the hands of the Parachute Regiment.

So when does the term come from? I reckon Interarms or one of its ilk's adverts in Guns & Ammo or similar magazines. I well remember as a kid, lots of other made up nonsense that the Mail Order sellers used to print in order to make a certain gun more glamorous. Later, No.5s were certainly used in "The Jungle" but I suspect that even then they were still called Rifles, No.5 by their users.

Anyone care to add/change this? Maybe someone has some old gun magazines with adverts for Jungle Carbines" that they could share - especially the dates.

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[limpetmine]

Good question. They have, for the nearly 40 years of being known to me, have been called "Jungle Carbines". Everyone knows what you are speaking of when you use that term. And nearly all don't go spastic about it. (Call a M-1917 a P-17 and see what happens!).

[Beerhunter]

Call a M-1917 a P-17 and see what happens!

Well I for one would object. There are P14s and M1917s - no hybrids.

But in any case it isn't really the same thing is it? That is to say, to call an M1917 a P17 is a simple error, not a nickname.

[drweiler]

I'm 5,000 miles from my library right now but I recall even Reynolds referred to it as a 'jungle carbine' in his book "The Lee Enfield Rifle" published in 1960. I prefer correct nomenclature as well, but often add 'jungle carbine' when shopping for parts/accessories among the unfamiliar.

[newcastle]

I have heard that Golden State Arms coined the term when they started producing similar looking rifles from the surplus Enfields they bought after WW2.

[Jc5]

The term "jungle carbine" is used for the No.5 in the 1955 edition of Smith's "Small Arms of the World," so it is at least that old.

Need to check the 1940s issues of American Rifleman and see if there's an earlier reference.

[Peter Laidler]

The name Jungle Carbine was certainly used by us British/Australian/NZealanders to identify the breed when they were in Malaya in the mid to late 60's. While it wasn't in the official nomenclature at all, they were always referred to as Jungle Carbines

[Steve H. in N.Y.]

I think newcastle is right, at least concerning the use of the term in America. Here's the barrel of a Golden State thing from the 1950's/60's.

Attachment 24238

[Amatikulu]

What's wrong with calling a M-1917 a P17? Looks like it was in common use in WW2

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d44_1297271901

[Peter Laidler]

In response to Amatikulu's querie, I dont suppose there's anything wrong as such. Certainly to me because they're one and the same thing. It's a personal thing really. On the other hand, just where do some people get the name 'KING' screw from? In that case, it's nothing of the sort. Who's ever heard of a SCREW, king, trigger guard?