Nice Remington M1903 1st Variation Rifle

[tsmgguy]

Mods: Hope that it's OK to post a continuing auction. Thought boardmembers might find this one particularly interesting/instructional.

Below is an auction for a very nice Remington 1st variation M1903 rifle. It's the earliest that I've ever seen, having a barrel date of 10/41. I almost bid on it, until I noticed that it has the stock and butt plate of a Remington produced M1903A3, not the 1903 finger groove stock that it should have. Remington 2nd variation M1903s have the first wartime production expedients, omitting the stock finger groove and the rear sight base lightening cut. They also have the receiver gas relief "Hatcher hole", and a receiver tang that is drilled all the way through for the rear bolt.

http://www.gunbroker...?Item=256336641

Information

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[Rick the Librarian]

Interesting rifle, but it is a mixmaster. What do you define as a "first variation" Remington M1903?

[tsmgguy]

Remington was contracted to produce M1903 rifles which were basically the same as had been produced from well prior to the first World War. The first of these was produced in October, 1941, starting with serial 3000001. These were the "first variaton" rifles, which is strictly a collector term. Then, Remington sought approval to modify rifles produced, and along came the "second variation" rifles, which Remington termed the M1903 (Modified), or just (M). These did away with the finger groove in the stock, and the lightening cut on the rear sight base. A gas venting hole was added on the left side of the receiver, and the receiver tang was now drilled through for the rear mounting bolt, among other production short cuts and design modifications. These were produced right up until the introduction of what was basically a complete redesign, the M1903A3. Bill Brophy details the production of these rifles in his now standard text, The Springfield M1903 Rifles.

I'm thinking that this rifle is reasonably correct, except for the stock substitutuion. The bolt and some other small bits should be blued, not parked, though, including the range and elevation knobs and cut off.

I have a minty Remington M1903 (M), and was pretty excited to see this first variaton rifle offered for sale until I realized that the stock had been substitued and the metal had been at least partially refinished. Remington M1903s are seldom encountered in good shape as so many were offered as military assistance during and after the war. Most seen today are throughly worn, and will have added foreign military stamps and markings.

[C Dexter]

Beautiful rifle. I have a barreled receiver and front lug that is very similar to this one (also 10-41) but mine is #2075 in production.

Mine, however, has all original blued finish. Even though it was 1941, can I assume correctly that his rifle went through an arsenal rebuild at some point and was parkerized? Otherwise, I have no idea why mine would be original blued.

I guess this is a long way of asking if the original Remington 03s were blued or Parkerized?

Thanks, CD

[tsmgguy]

Beautiful rifle. I have a barreled receiver and front lug that is very similar to this one (also 10-41) but mine is #2075 in production.

Mine, however, has all original blued finish. Even though it was 1941, can I assume correctly that his rifle went through an arsenal rebuild at some point and was parkerized? Otherwise, I have no idea why mine would be original blued.

I guess this is a long way of asking if the original Remington 03s were blued or Parkerized?

Thanks, CD

I guess this is a long way of asking if the original Remington 03s were blued or Parkerized?

Thanks, CD

Your rifle would have been mostly parked, originally. Scroll down the page in the link below to see some nice shots of unaltered Remington M1903s.

Nice Remington M1903 First Variation Rifle

[tsmgguy]

L-o-n-g article about the "red star" rifles, and Remington M1903 production in general.

Remington Society of America - ...

[Rick the Librarian]

As I have said before there was NO "1st and 2nd variation" Remington M1903s. "Remington M1903" and "M1903 Modified" were two names for the same rifle, and used interchangeably by the Army during the whole time of Remington M1903 production. Changes made in the Remington M1903 were made over the entire time the rifle was produced. The term "Modified" shows up very early in the rifle's history, even before production started, although I might have to check on that part of the statement. People insisting that the M1903 (Modified) denoted later Remington M1903s have a hard time defining when this designation was first used and when it "took place", as far as a serial number.

The usual quoted "cutoff" was 3,050,000 and, trust me, I have looked at enough Remington M1903s (including about 50 of the Red Star rifles "in person") to tell that there was little discernible different between a 3,050,000 rifle and a 3,051,000 rifle. The changes were made over time and there was no discernible "border" until the M1903A3 was adopted. You might make a better case for a "cutoff" in the 3,030,000 range, when there were several changes, but even these happened over a long period. Grasping groove stocks, for example - the first "non-GG" stocks were used on 3,020,000 range rifles, but I have seen them on 3,040,000 range rifles and (I think!) John Beard reported one on a 3,100,000 rifle!

Yes, long-winded I know, but one of my pet peeves! A well-known author used the term to describe later Remington M1903s, but admitted it was a collector term, and had no basis in fact, except as another same for the same rifle.

By the way, this is the link for the article on the Red Star rifles on the Remington Society website:

Remington Society of America - journals/RedStar

I would also suggest reading the article that John Beard, Terrell Mullins and I did in the August, 2009 ed. of Man at Arms Magazine.

I agree the rifle being discussed is a nice "looker" but it has been refinished and appears to have a number of replacement parts.

[John Beard]

Beautiful rifle. I have a barreled receiver and front lug that is very similar to this one (also 10-41) but mine is #2075 in production.

Mine, however, has all original blued finish. Even though it was 1941, can I assume correctly that his rifle went through an arsenal rebuild at some point and was parkerized? Otherwise, I have no idea why mine would be original blued.

I guess this is a long way of asking if the original Remington 03s were blued or Parkerized?

Thanks, CD

Your description indicates that you perhaps have a CMP Greek rifle. The original finish on the barrel and receiver was olive-grey parkerizing. The Greeks, however, often stripped the parkerizing from the rifles and hot-dip blued them. Perhaps that's what you have.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[C Dexter]

That is interesting and certainly makes sense. I didn't realize the Greeks applied bluing too. Thanks

[John Beard]

That is interesting and certainly makes sense. I didn't realize the Greeks applied bluing too. Thanks

The CMP Greek rifles included a considerable number of very early New Zealand Remington M1903 Lend/Lease rifles. The overwhelming majority had been refinished. The Greeks dipped the barreled actions in a caustic solution to remove the parkerizing, then hot-dip blued them. Everything came out blue except the nickel steel receiver, which came out plum-colored. I saw scores and scores of them like that.

J.B.