Question re AIA M10 No 4 mk IV origin

[Cantom]

I had a thought the other day re the origin of these rifles. Could they have been made in China by Norinco?
Are we even sure there is a government gun factory in Vietnam?

What suddenly made me wonder is, the barrel is chromed internally, just like pretty much every gun Norinco sells, even their .45 1911 pistols.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Claven2]

I have to say - the evidence is overwhelming that it's Vietnam.

[Steve]

Vietnam is what Lawrence Ord in Oz is saying. Them and other Down Under shooters from different parts of the country. The AIA rifles have been sold in Oz for five or six years, starting with 7.62x39s.

There are a few other indications. A complete absence of ANY stampings except for AIA, Brisbane. This lends credence to the statements by American shooters and businesses with which I have corresponded that said the Vietnam connection would be a negative selling point.

Then there are the SDI stamps. Some of the rifles sold in Canada by Marstar bear the Sabre Defence marking originally intended for Nashville. The SDI stamp with "AIA, Brisbane" would have fooled many US buyers into thinking they were Oz made.

My belief in that regard was that it was the US importer's intent to downplay the actual country of manufacture. That would have negatively impacted on sales - had AIA not screwed up and lost the contract of course.

[Cantom]

I have a No 4 Mk IV on the way Steve...you haven't talked me out of it yet.
Hey, where do you live? Want to try my new rifle when I get it? I think you're in Southern Ontario? Email me if you want...we could take it to my club.

Vietnam is what Lawrence Ord in Oz is saying. Them and other Down Under shooters from different parts of the country. The AIA rifles have been sold in Oz for five or six years, starting with 7.62x39s.

There are a few other indications. A complete absence of ANY stampings except for AIA, Brisbane. This lends credence to the statements by American shooters and businesses with which I have corresponded that said the Vietnam connection would be a negative selling point.

Then there are the SDI stamps. Some of the rifles sold in Canada by Marstar bear the Sabre Defence marking originally intended for Nashville. The SDI stamp with "AIA, Brisbane" would have fooled many US buyers into thinking they were Oz made.

My belief in that regard was that it was the US importer's intent to downplay the actual country of manufacture. That would have negatively impacted on sales - had AIA not screwed up and lost the contract of course.

[Claven2]

I'm not saying people shouldn't buy the rifles, but I AM convinced they originate in the People's Republic of Vietnam.

Whether that's any better or worse than the Chinese stuff most people are lapping up is debatable

[Cantom]

I'm not saying people shouldn't buy the rifles, but I AM convinced they originate in the People's Republic of Vietnam.

Whether that's any better or worse than the Chinese stuff most people are lapping up is debatable

I've been to Vietnam 3 times...my wife is Vietnamese. There is junk made there and there's great stuff made there...if the Hams or whoever are doing any QC then the rifles are likely fine.

[Steve]

No, I don't live in S. Ont.

I have had the chance to examine one but not fire it. As I said at my site, my biggest concern is liability. When this word is used or the subject mentioned EVERYONE goes silent. I have trouble buying something when I'm told not to bother with the details. You like it, you buy it.

I was a service armourer and these things interest me. When I research books or articles and the information is being purposely withheld, I have to ask - why? It's the only firearms company in the world that does that. I think that you can appreciate how this could be considered suspect - su****ious. (Odd, the sp!c part of su****ious has stars - now I see why).

The second thing is easier to answer - why the lack of markings? You have to go back a few years. These were originally intended for US sale. After AIA screwed up with 2 of their original US importers, Marstar got the chance but they were - for lack of a better term - second string. The reason that both the Hams and Marstar continue with the obfuscation is because they still wish to sell into the US. It is the largest single market in the world for them. I believe that AIA needs a cooling off period while their less than stellar reputation with US distrubtors is given time to fade from memory. When it does, you can bet they'll try finding a US importer again.

As it stands, there is a lot of ill feeling within the US community regarding anything from Vietnam. In order to sell the rifles, they have to somehow avert the mention of it. That is why there is no marking stating "Made in Vietnam". There is no indication at all of where it was actually made. AIA knew that if the rifle was stamped AIA, Brisbane, people would make that leap and assume Oz was the country of manufacture. It's not illegal as far as I know but it is deceptive. Stronger words have been used by others (especially in the US) but I'll leave it at that.

[Claven2]

FWIW, US BATF regs REQUIRE the importer to stamp the rifles with the country of origin. Australia is NOT the country of origin though, so I think AIA ran afoul of the US importation folks - hence why the batch re-routed to Canada did not get sold stateside (as I understand the situation - which might be less than 100% true, we'll see).

[Cantom]

Lots of Americans seem to have gotten over the Vietnam war thing, it's water under the bridge for most. At any rate, far more Vietnamese were killed/maimed/poisoned than were Americans. They're getting on with their lives and building a country and a future. The US is forging ahead with friendly relations with Vietnam.
Given a choice, I'd consider modern day Vietnam a more friendly nation and less of a threat than China is...I'd rather send my money there. I'm not a Norinco fan at all...I sold my SKS off months ago and don't miss it.

No, I don't live in S. Ont.

I have had the chance to examine one but not fire it. As I said at my site, my biggest concern is liability. When this word is used or the subject mentioned EVERYONE goes silent. I have trouble buying something when I'm told not to bother with the details. You like it, you buy it.

I was an service armourer and these things interest me. When I research books or articles and the information is being purposely withheld, I have to ask - why? It's the only firearms company in the world that does that. I think that you can appreciate how this could be considered suspect. (Odd, the **** su****ious.

The second thing is easier to answer - why the lack of markings? You have to go back a few years. These were originally intended for US sale. After AIA screwed up with 2 of their original US importers, Marstar got the chance but they were - for lack of a better term - second string. The reason that both the Hams and Marstar continue with the obfuscation is because they wish to sell into the US. It is the largest single market in the world for them.

As it stands, there is a lot of ill feeling within the US community regarding anything from Vietnam. In order to sell the rifles, they have to somehow avert the mention of it. That is why there is no marking stating "Made in Vietnam". There is no indication at all of where it was actually made. AIA knew that if the rifle was stamped AIA, Brisbane, people would make that leap and assume Oz was the country of manufacture. It's not illegal as far as I know but it is deceptive. Stronger words have been used by others (especially in the US) but I'll leave it at that.

[Steve]

Ron, did you read my article? Stamps didn't enter into it, at least, according to Tristar. Expired permits was given as the official reason. Tristar had no reason to lie about that.

Was Vietnam a factor when talking about the earlier US attempts at importation? That is still unclear. I could understand the concern US Customs may have had with the country of origin. Tristar and then Sabre Defence in Nashville, TN had thought to import them. The US State Department said no, allegedly because of an expired permit and put an end to that. It seems that, for Tristar at least, things didn't work out. The company had trouble with AIA and terminated their business relationship with AIA. The reason? I was told,"Delivery issues, and inability to work with the supplier. Long periods of no contact at all, and actually un-cooperative." Oh.