Reloading metallic cartridges

[villiers]

Agree that the bench dispenser also gives me more assurance in getting consistent results filling metal cartridges. And also using a die and press for seating. The Mauser `71 bullets are a perfectly tight fit after I´ve neck sized the cases. But bullets in the Werder cases are a bit loose and I´m experimenting with a .44 taper crimp.

I use just a drop of Bore shine on a felt cleaning tip after every few rounds but only `cos that´s what I´d been told to do. Can´t see that it does that much good. And just put a dab of grease in behind the bullet with the point of a knife (is it really necessary?). The Swiss powder you get here seems to be almost as clean as nitro.

Main prob. is that the sights on both are far too high which spoils the fun of shooting at 100 metres. Neither are all that accurate at 300. The Werder´s not much bigger than a long pistol and I can´t get more than 30 grains of BP into the small cartridge.

[gunner]

Well, good luck to you. May a blue, mephitic cloud of satan's farts rise over the fair land of Germany!

A great one Jon!

Patrick, i never added a dap of grease behind the bullet. Only thing behind the bullet is a piece of a Tetra-pak cardboard. Oooh and the BP!

[Patrick Chadwick]

My working principles in brief:
a) For military rifle competitions, where you are not allowed to clean between shots, grease behind the bullet is a must, to keep the fouling soft.
b) How hard the fouling will be, depends on the powder grain size. Swiss No. 2 (for the Sharps) forms noticeably harder residues in the bore than No. 4.
c) Shooting the Sharps without a powder wad and without cleaning resulted in typically 1st shot OK, 2nd a tad lower, and the 3rd dropping down to the edge of the black. So I either have to clean well after each shot or have a good lube wad, as for the military BPCRs.
d) I get the most accurate results in the Sharps by using both methods - the lube wad AND cleaning between shots, using a blow tube to provide moisture, together with a special cleaner.
e) The cleaner is 3 x VFG cal. 45 felt cylinders, one behind the other, on a stainless steel screw. This assembly is pushed through from the breech end by a nylon rod (it has to be a bit flexible to clear the base of the folded-down Dr Goodwin diopter).
f) So I can clean and load lying down, without having to jump up and down the whole time. A blessing if your spine is knackered.

The best result to date with the Sharps, at 300 meters, 133/150 incl. 4 Xs. In competition, not in practice. It works.


Patrick

[gunner]

Do it mostly the same way except the lube wad. But for the reason that we never shot at a military competition is it not so important. Cleaning the Sharps after any single shot is important and i have to do it better! 133/150.....my best was only 127/150 at the Philippsburg Range!

[villiers]

Attachment 28236So ... here´s the result of the first stage of experimenting with the Werder M68 kurz 11.5x35R short cavalry carbine:
I could only get hold of Swiss No. 3 BP and can get just under 30 grains in the case. Used .45 thin cork pads under Johannsen Classic .440 394grs bullets. Have to take special care not exceed 50mm COAL. Over 51mm, the the base of the cartridge protrudes from the chamber and the trapdoor will not close. The cases are taper crimped using a disassembled .44 die. Cases have been neck sized twice and will probably last forever.

The cav. carbine is only 80cm (approx. 31.5 inches) long, so is (like me) hardly likely to be a match winner, but is accurate enough. The spent lead bullet in the pic went through two ribs of a household steel radiator. Next step is to take some Vo measurements.

It is definitely a very reliable mechanism. After ten rounds, the Swiss powder did not show much fouling or residue. The action is truly `Blitz´ and, with a bit of practice, high speed performance can be spectacular. For cleaning, the action (and, if deemed necessary, the barrel) is removed, and this only take a few minutes. I dis- and re-assembled every last bit in under 15 minutes.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Thanks for the pic and info Patrick.
I am both amused and pleased to see that you are quickly getting the knack of BPCR manufacture for wierd chamberings - creative use of dies intended for other calibers!

My first cartridges for the Grenzaufseher Gewehr (11,2x37,5R) looked rather like those you have made for the Werder - too much lead for the case. I think that a bullet of about 300-320 gns would be better suited, allowing a larger powder charge (somewhere around 35-38 gns) and a considerably higher Vo/flatter trajectory. The combination you have at present will probably produce a Vo around 200-250 meters/sec. I am eager to see what you measure.


Patrick

[villiers]

Right! The lead does take up too much space. Suppose the next step will have to be melting my own bullets. Am still somewhat apprehensive about taking it to the local Wannsee 100 metre range as there´s a stiff penalty for damaging the overhead pulley system and I don´t really know how high the trajectory might go.

Have now gained some sympathy for the poor Frogs on the receiving end of that heavy lump of lead in 1871/2 and am trying to find a pic of a Werder ammo pouch to find out how many rounds were issued.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Used .45 thin cork pads under Johannsen Classic .440 394grs bullets.

I am looking at the Johannsen catalog right now. Page 167 (more or less, depending on which edition you have available).
If those bullets are the Best.-Nr. BGO229, then I suggest you try a pack of BGO227 (0.446" 358 gn). Not just 10% less lead, but the they have a finer nose, which might give you a bit more room in the throat and thus leeway for the COAL. And they are much closer to the weight cast by the Lyman mould for .446 / 340 gn, which is almost the only off-the-shelf mould that would be of any use to you.

It could be that the trajectory is so extraordinarily high because you are experiencing the revolver-kick effect - that is to say, the heavier bullets are travelling more slowly down the bore while the back pressure acts for a longer time to push the action back and up, thus producing a larger muzzle rise than smaller bullets with the same muzzle energy. This leads to the interesting result that - at short ranges - heavier bullets can actually impact higher, despite a lower Vo! So get the weight of that lead down!


Patrick

[villiers]

Wilco!

Patrick

[villiers]

Patrick, have looked into the Johannsen catalogue. The BG 0227 are a bit too thick. Think the next step is to slug the chamber and a few inches of barrel and also a few inches at the muzzle end and then find someone to make me a mould for the Werder. Have got two bars of Cerrosafe but can´t find anyone who still makes moulds over here. Vizier mentioned Wich ... but his `phone´s dead. Bet there´s plenty of people in USA. Any ideas?
Patrick