For the experts

[Alexisrq]

This is the data sheet I am doing for my first Mauser 98. This rifle was sold to me as a GI brought back. Still waiting for my copy of Robert Ball book so front the little that I know (mostly reading on the net) it does not have any import markings and does not have any Russian markings that I know off. Comments are welcome. Is a work in progress so some of the parts have not been examined yet.

Receiver code bcd 43, receiver proof - one waf on side, no #. Serial number 9712 e
Side rail Mod.98

Barrel band - avk 88 42 bys (vertical arrow 2 feathers with circle) and two Waf (one on top of the other)

Bolt body s/n 9712 e, one waf at the back of the bolt handle.
Firing Pin s/n 9712
Bolt sleeve catch - no markings
Extractor – J on top of an F on the inside
Extractor collar - no markings
Safety s/n 9712
Cocking piece s/n 9712
Bolt sleeve s/n 12

Trigger guard s/n 9712
Floor plate, milled – a number 1 and a symbol that looks like a ribbon on the inside.
Magazine follower, milled – small R on the inside
Magazine follower spring - no markings
Rear trigger guard screw - no markings
Front trigger guard - no markings
Locking screw - no markings
Trigger – waf 18 an o bellow
Sear s/n 12 and a small e on the other side

Rear sight base/sleeve – a and waf 18
Rear sight base, milled s/n 9712
Rear sight spring – strange symbol, looks like a Y with a small ~ on top and a dot at the bottom.
Rear sight leaf, milled one piece no pin s/n 9712
Rear sight slide body s/n 9712
Rear sight detent s/n 12

Front band, milled s/n 9712 and a 1 on the other side
Rear band, milled s/n 9712 and a 1 on the other side
Band spring - no markings
Bayonet lug – small e on front
Cupped Butt plate - bpr
Cleaning rod – 9-5/8” long with no markings, it looks like is welded in the center

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...q/MVC-007F.jpg
http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...q/MVC-008F.jpg
http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...q/MVC-010F.jpg

Information

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[Calif-Steve]

Parkerized? Has this rifle been on the site recently?

[m4a3sherman]

I am trying to decide if thats parkerized or just a thin phosphate finish....

[m4a3sherman]

Incidentally, what would you like to know? (sorry for the double post). bcd is the Gustloff Werks built at Buchenwald Concentration Camp. They produced a number of small arms including but not limited to 98k and g43. Typically they are of decent quality but not the best; having been assembled by slave labour of course. They are not particularly rare but certainly any vet bring back with matching numbers is worth quite a bit.

[Alexisrq]

Thanks for the response. I am new to Mausers, I have restore or “correct” a couple of Garands. My doubt is (because I still waiting for the reference material) about the serial numbers. With Garands the serial # was at the receiver and the other parts have different numbers, that is why I can exchange parts and make it a “correct grade”. On the Mausers I see that all parts have the same # as the serial number, does that mean that they just make one 9712? As you can see in the data sheet there are some parts that do not have the SN, if every weapon is unique that means that my chance of finding the correct part with the rifle # are almost impossible. Basically I will like to know what parts do not belong and if it will be possible to find them in this universe or the next.

And no, I have not taken the rifle to the field. Is been in my gun safe for couple of months.

[m4a3sherman]

On mausers and indeed most everything BUT Garands, the numbers stamped on the parts correspond to the rifle's serial number, typically the number stamped on the receiver. If the numbers match, then they are indicative that those parts were installed on the rifle at a factory or repair depot. For example they made millions of, lets say rear barrel bands, which ended up in big bins without numbers on them. Those parts were then applied to a rifle needing one, new or otherwise, and then once it was fit to the rifle, with any minute adjustments taken care of, the part was numbered to match the rifle. On earlier k98ks, literally EVERYTHING was numbered, including locking screws, to match the receiver of the rifle they were put on. The numbers on garands are sort of like part numbers and the only indication of being correct or otherwise is typically the maker. As I understand it, as rolling changes occurred over time, certain part numbers were abandoned and new ones adopted due to slight changes in production or such. With mausers, this is not the case. Though many changes did occur with mauser parts, they did not stamp the parts with reference numbers. One assumes if you requested a part, you would receive whatever was most current...

[Alexisrq]

Well, those are bad news that means that they only stamp one of each part. It will be almost impossible to find the correct parts. Is that is the case what are people calling restoration here in the forum?

I guess I wait for the book to find out in which year they stop marking everything and stop using the full number and adopted the last two. Also the cleaning rod length and the front side cover I believe they do not belong to this year.

[Patrick Chadwick]

I guess I wait for the book to find out in which year they stop marking everything and stop using the full number and adopted the last two.

I suspect a misinterpretation here. The Germans did not stop marking, up to the point where it all started to collapse. The original practise, from Imperial days, was to mark major items with the full four digits, and smaller items with the last two. So parts marked with two digits were normal, not a wartime expediency. It's in fact rather complicated, and changed slightly as time went on, and I am not qualified to lay down the "rules" for what happened during WWII.

I have a 400-plus page book that explains it all in mind-boggling detail. On my M1871 Mauser, for instance, even the screw that holds the front band in position has a number! Mausers were marked on parts where some other rifles didn't even have parts!

Series numbering went up to 9999, and then repeated with a letter a, then letter b etc. Since the year was also (usually?) marked, the numbering could start again the following year. I am not sure what they did if they got through the whole alphabet in one year.

As you have already noted, yours is 9712 e, in other word the 5th lot of 1-9999 in that year. There may well be some other 9712 e`s around, but from other years. And there will be many more small parts marked 12. About 1 % , in fact!

You begin to understand why a lot of number punch sets are sold on the Internet, and if you want to get serious about Mauser part correctness, you will need to get a good watchmaker's eyeglass and practise spotting remarked parts. Standard practice was to stamp before the part was blued, so a stamp that has been applied over the bluing is suspicious. Just remember, stamps are cheap, and there appear to be repro WaA (Waffenamtsabnahme) acceptance stamps around as well...I wonder what people use them for????
Most definitely Caveat Emptor, as old Roman collectors used to say - they already had trouble with faked Greek statues back in Caesar's day!

BTW, if a number was altered offically, standard practise was to line out the original number not grind it away! The new number was then applied below or wherever space permitted. Any trace of grinding and/or refinishing in the area of stamps and numbers should be a warning sign for collectors.

However, yours sounds like a fully matching rifle, so don't start fiddling with it until you know a lot more. I am glad to hear you are going to get a book on Mauserology - there is a lot of falsification around. And never forget, unit armorers in a country going to pieces had other things to worry about than making up perfectly matching rifles for collectors to appreciate 70 years later. So small parts may easily have been swapped or replaced, and this does not necessarily mean that they are post-war "bitsas". In fact, it is the perfectly matching as-new looking rifles "from a previously undiscovered cache" that I would be worried about!


Patrick

P.S: for real number fanatics. Please don't write in and say "of course, at the Dingsbums Works in Whatsithausen they only marked barrel bands on even days with an R in the month". As true as it may be, that sort of thing will only confuse learners (and me too, by the way!)

[boltaction]

For what I can see at a quick glance, this is a very nice, probably original Vet Bring Back which has the numbers matching on the parts which should be numbered. Cleaning rods were frequently lost, and toward the end of the war, were not even issued with the later production rifles. That rod is the wrong length for the rifle, but that is a minor point. I wouldn't change ANYTHING on that rifle, not a thing. It has "been there", done its thing, lost the war, and was brought back by someone 66 years ago. It wears its service well, and any attempt to "restore" it will only lessen its value to anyone who really understands such things. In any event, it doesn't need any restoring.

Ed

[Alexisrq]

Thanks for that detail explanation, it helps a lot. The transition from Garands to Mausers is huge. Garands are easy to restore, I have all the info there is and you can trade or buy the proper parts at the CMP forum. Following that mine set I was going to replace the parts that do not belong to the rifle in order to restore to its original condition and not having a “mixmaster” like we call them on the CMP. As I learning is a bit more complicated than that. I guess it will be ok to use those parts that have the same number (if I can find them) to restore the rifle. The only thing I have to worry is whether the part was stamp or milled. I will re-oil the stock and re-assemble the rifle and will post pictures of all the numbers.