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  1. #1
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    Mismatched Numbers

    Looking at some curio & relic rifles on the various websites and I have a general question:
    How critical is the bolt having a matching number to the receiver if I'm only interested in the gun as a shooter? I enjoy shooting the old military rifles but am not really a collector.
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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    Personally I never fire a purchased militaty surplus rifle without having the headspace checked by my gunsmith. But I have been known to be a bit on the "saftey first" side.

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    So how many millions of US rifles never had numbered bolts?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRGunner06 View Post
    I enjoy shooting the old military rifles but am not really a collector.

    I am delighted to hear that. Number fetishism can become a bore. And just think of all those millions of US rifles, like the M1917s, that never had numbered bolts. Are they therefore suspect? I think not. What matters, regardless of any number, is the metallurgical condition of the bolt (wear, possible setback of the locking lugs, sharp cocking piece ledge, check for safety-off fire and slam fire).

    And I consider it to be AKWOTAM to have the headspace checked by a gunsmith. Evaluating a rifle by popping gauges made to modern SAAMI standards (commercial standards, please note) into an ancient military rifle that was most probably never built to such standards is a proven way to get a perfectly good rifle rejected. A famous type for this is the Swedishicon Mauser.

    Apart from obvious damage and extreme wear, the 3 major items to be checked before you even dream of firing a cartridge in a newly acquired rifle are:

    1) Safety-off fire
    2) Slam-fire
    3) Head clearance, i.e the end play when you insert a real cartridge (not a gauge) into the real chamber of that rifle.

    It has just turned midnight here, so I will be brief. If you search the forums for the 3 key expressions listed above, especially the gunsmithing, reloading, restoration and BP forums, you will find a wealth of opinions, tips and knowhow on these 3 topics - and you will learn that you can check them all yourself without expensive tooling. And you will pick up a lot of associated information that will help you to understand what is going on in the chamber when you fire a cartridge.

    But to answer your original question: a number on the bolt that matches the rifle is nice, but no guarantee that the rifle will function properly a century or more after that number was originally stamped!


    Patrick
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 01-18-2012 at 06:12 PM.

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    I'll say thank you as well Patrick.

    Does it matter if it has a matching bolt? If you have one you can probably put your kid through college. All original rifles are a fantasy unless you get one that was put togeather with parts that were on hand between Korea and the closing of the Springfield Armory in the late 60's and then they were put in imediate storage. It wouldn't have all matching numbers but it would be original.
    All US military rifles were made to the same specs so parts from S.A., Winchester, IH, or HRA would interchange with any other. The same with all the different makers of the carbine, or Thompson's or even .45's.
    In most cases rifles were issed still in the cosmolene and after a group through cleaning they were never original again.
    As stated have the head spaced checked as it might need a different bolt but most should pass a field guage.

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    If you are just a shooter and not interested in collector value then follow the advise given on checking head space and safety features on the gun. A non matching bolt on mil surplus rifles (and some pistols ie: Luger's P 38's etc, etc can devalue a weapon as much as 50% to a collector. Many collectors will not even look at a mismatched weapon unless it is an extremely rare specimen.

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