Rather depressing day @ local show...

[73amc]

Hi guys,

New here, so be gentle. I have been looking for a RC k98 Mauser for a little while and its starting to get a little frustrating to say the least. I'm from eastern PA and I would like to think that I know and frequent most of my local gun shops. I have even become friends with some of the guys there. So I decided to head out to a semi local show, a little over an hour away. 700 tables, I figured I'de get lucky and ind something decent.

I was so wrong. Yes, there were about a dozen Mausers at the show, ranging from Turkish to an actual numbers matching German k98, but nothing affordable. IF it was in my price range, I was a little embarrassed by the condition. I realize Im not going to get a pristine rifle for 300 dollars, but looking at these rifles and seeing some of the kitchen gunsmithing that some of these vendors did to these rifles to try and help their cause was disgusting. Captures screws literally forced into place, obviously not an original piece, parts literally just thrown together, and when you ask the vendors about a particular rifle, they just scratch their head and guess.

I guess if I just wanted a Mauser to say that I had one, I could have bought one of these sorry excuses, but Ide like to hold out to find exactly what I want. I just wish there was a reputable place online that I could trust to not sell junk.

Sorry for the rant, but Im looking for my first Mauser and Ide honestly like to find the best one for me, in my price range. I just fear that these show vendors just keep recycling all of their inventory between shows and Ill be paying 7 dollars to get into every show and wind up seeing the same guns over and over again.

Would you guys have any encouraging words for me? LOL

Thanks for listening and I love the site.

-Justin

Information

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[Badger]

Welcome Justin ...

I know your pain ...

I had a lot of those experiences when I first started out collecting K98k's, including paying full price for a faked "all matching" one from a hustler at a local gun show. I didn't know is was fake and I should have done a lot more research before I laid down hard earned cash. Nowadays, if the price is too good to be true, it's probably is faked ...

After that, I practiced patience and did a lot of research before buying anything ...

Regards,
Doug

[73amc]

I'm tempted to try gun broker. I do not like the idea, but if the seller is honest and shows actual pictures of the rifle, how bad could it be?

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

Back in the late 1950 and 1960's and even the 70's every gun magazine and gunsmithing book had articles on how to make a "sportin rifle" out of those old cheap military rifles. We are now paying the price for that idiocy. It's been almost 70 years since the "big war"

[73amc]

Something like this...I would like to see more, better quality pictures, and Im not to keen on the stock repair, but this is 100 times better than what I saw today and half the price of anything I saw today.

GERMAN K98 MAUSER 1944 RUSSIAN CAPTURE - NICE : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com

[Badger]

We'll, if you refer to any library entry for a K98k in the Germany - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here), with thanks to Advisory Panel member Claven2, youl'll find an excellent article under each Collectors Comments and Feedback section which addresses that question about Russian Captures.

There's also several examples of Code 42 Oberndorfs by year of manufacture, so you'll get an idea as to what kind of markings should have appeared on yours.

I've copied one here for your reference.

2. CAUTION: How do I tell if I have a rebuilt RC (Russian Capture) and not an original unaltered K98k?

Russian Capture K98k's all share similar traits. The are all WW2 era German Karabiners (though some are former Gew98's the Nazis had converted to K98k spec - rare though!). Most have matching receiver and barrel.

When the Russians came into these guns they stockpiled them and promptly began doing other more important things like rebuilding their cities, etc. Many RC rifles sat for month or even years exposed to the elements. By the late 1940's, many of these rifles were in an advanced state of deterioration, while some remained like new.

In true Russian style, a colossal public make-work project was undertaken. The ENTIRE inventory of German small arms then in Russian possession (roughly half the total wartime output of Nazi Germany's arms production) was ordered to undergo refurbishment and as many useable arms as possible to be made ready. Why? Russia was paranoid. The Cold War was freezing over and Russia feared invasion from the West. Also, it was a cheap source of arms they could export to allies in North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, and every other wanna-be commi armpit of the world without depleting their "front line" weapons stockpiles.

The Russians took all their K98k's, and totally disassembled them except for the barrel. Bores were inspected and those found to be acceptable (ie, some pitting OK - so long as it's still safely shootable, much like with their refurbed Mosins) were set aside. Those that were deemed too far gone were recycled into steel for tractor parts or Order of Lennin medals, or whatever.

The small parts were all hot-dip reblued. Rusty parts were wire brushed or sandblasted first. These were placed indiscriminately in bins. The stocks were also inspected for serviceability. Those deemed acceptable were retained, those unacceptable were burned.

When the rifles were re-assembled no effort was made to match parts. A new (used) bolt was assembled and fitted to the receiver and the whole affair was assembled into a rifle from the binned parts. When done, most parts were electropencilled with the rifle's serial number and a flat was sanded on the left side of the wood stock (think big belt sander and half-drunk worker). The rifle's serial number was stamped there running parallel to the rifle's bore line. (Yugos are stamped perpendicular, for comparison)

Once complete, the whole rifle was generally painted in cheap shellac as a preservative agent - these are often not cosmolened for some reason - crated up and sent to war reserve, especially in the frontier states like Ukraine (which stored them in underground "nuclear proof" depleted salt mines). Today, cash strapped former Soviet states are all too happy to sell these to us.

It's difficult to say what percentage of captured arms survived the rebuild programs, but I'd imagine maybe half (or less) would be a good guess. Many of these arms sat out in the open for LONG periods of time before being rebuilt, so attrition due to the elements was probably a factor.

It's also wrong to assume that RC's are, in fact, "captures". At any given moment, less than 2 million Nazi troops would have served on the Russian front. Not all would have had K98K's. Over 14 Million K98k's were built and most experts agree that somewhere around 7 million likely ended up in Russian hands after the war. Throughout the whole war, it's doubtful a full 7 million K98k's traveled to east Prussia and beyond.

When Nazi Germany surrendered to the Allies, the Whermacht assembled at depots all over Europe and turned in their arms. Additionally, government arms stockpiles and factories were captured and divied up by the victorious armies. At hostilities cessation, every Mauser weapon in the future East Germany (and all points east) would have become what we think of as an "RC K98k". Public ownership of guns in the USSR was banned as well. So whether a rifle was taken from a dead private in 1944 Minsk or if the NKVD knocked on a door in Berlin in 1947 and confiscated the arm from a retired volkspolitzei prison guard, it still ended up in the stocks of RC mausers. In fact, it's safe to say the MAJORITY of such guns are likely NOT battlefield captures. ...... (Feedback by "Claven2")

Regards,
Doug

[73amc]

Thanks for the information. Like I said, Im not looking for a show piece. Im looking for a fun shooter. However, I dont want a total POS.

[Badger]

Thanks for the information. Like I said, Im not looking for a show piece. Im looking for a fun shooter. However, I dont want a total POS.

Take your time and you can find some good shooters and some nice K98k's amongst those Russian Captures, or even Czech rebuilds ..

Regards,
Doug

[Aragorn243]

It takes time but I know your pain. My RC K98 was one of the first I encountered when I re-entered the realm of buying surplus rifles after a long absence and I felt extremely lucky to find it for the price I did. My latest quest however took about two years and many gun shows but it did come out much better than I expected. My latest quest being a Swiss K31. My patience paid off as I was able to get an all matching one for $200 in a private sale with a fellow walking around the gun show.

I went to numerous auctions, many gun shops from Altoona to Allentown PA and a dozen gun shows looking at the same rifles over and over again and was rarely even seeing one, let alone finding one in my price range which like you was about $300 or so. As time progressed, my willingness to pay more was growing but at the same time, non matching rifles were approaching $350 and the condition of the stocks was terrible. I left each show just a bit more depressed than the previous one but after making that deal last weekend, it all went away.

It does take time and patience and a willingness to not settle for something you just are not going to like. RC's are not exactly collectible so prices should remain fairly constant for a little while yet, you just have to locate one. The only exception to that would be finding one so beat up that the price is so low you can work on it yourself to bring it back to life and get some satisfaction out of that. I snagged an Arisaka type 99 for $90 that wasn't really all that beat up, it just looked like it when I bought it. So examine them carefully, pitting can't be fixed but light surface rust can be eliminated and stocks can be cleaned.

[73amc]

Thank you guys.

Just some random google searches brought me to this place. They have bent bolt yugo 24/47s. Is this a creation by them or did they actually have some bent bolt 24/47's? J&G has them for 199 but the bolts arent bent, this place has them for a little more but it has a bent bolt. Thoughts? Have you guys ever purchased from an online shop that offered to "pick the best one" for an extra 10 dollars? How has it worked out? Sorry for all the newb questions, Im just really excited to find one of these.

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