April Long Range Vintage Military Rifle match

[Calfed]

The April Vintage Long-Range Military Rifle Match was held last weekend at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center and the Swiss rifles gave a good account of themselves. The match is a 40 round affair consisting of 10 rounds fired at 300, 500, 600 and 800 yards off a soft front rest. Two classes, "as issued" and "open", with prizes in various "as issued" categories (Swiss, Springfield, Mauser, Mosin, etc) if there are enough shooters in a category. "Open" is pretty much anything goes, as long as the action is military and the stock is wood. Open class rifles are generally scoped, but the "open class" winner this match was using a Swede M96 with Swedish diopter sights.

We had everything from a Russian M44 in "as issued" to a Kreiger barrelled VZ-24 in 7.62x39 with a 5-15 mil-dot scope in "open" class.

My younger son won the Swiss "as issued" category with his favorite K31 and GP11 ammo. He shot a 358/400-2X. I was second at 345/400-4X with my 1911. My older son was shooting an 09 Argy Mauser with Prvi ammo that didn't work out very well for him (250/400) He has done much better in the past with the Argy and my handloads (40 grains of IMR 4064/174 grain .311 SMK), but last week I stuck a case in my 7.65 sizing die and it is REALLY stuck--hence the Prvi ammo.

Overall match winner (has to come from the "as issued" rifles) was shooting an 03A3..shot a 361/400-3X...3 more than my son.

Overall match results...
Attachment 33474

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[Aragorn243]

That's very interesting. It seems like the K11 outperformed the K31, at least in this match. Obviously the sampling is small and the shooters are probably a bigger variable.

Has a study ever been done as to which of the two is more accurate? With the slightly longer barrel, I would imagine the K31 would have a slight edge.

[Calfed]

No K11's were shot in this match. My son was actually shooting a K31, but was erroneously listed as a 1911 Swiss. I was shooting a G1911 as was the Number 3 shooter. Those are the long rifle variants (30.8" barrel) and a fourth shooter was shooting a K31. My son was the top Swiss shooter with a 358/400.

I believe, and I think many Swiss shooters will agree, that the 1911 long rifle is the most accurate, followed closely by the K31, with the K11 trailing in the Swiss rifle accuracy race. I'm not aware of any formal testing and what I've proffered is my personal opinion only.

[Aragorn243]

Sorry, I have the K11 on my brain as I just got one and saw all the 1911's on the list.

What you say accuracy wise makes sense. Longer barrel, better performance theoretically. Other factors I'm sure. 1911 will have to be something I keep looking for.

[Calfed]

One reason that I shoot the G1911 is the long barrel length puts the front sight out farther, which makes it easier for my old eyes to focus on it.

I have presbyopia, a condition common in middle age and older, which makes it difficult to focus on close objects. I also have astigmatism. I compensate for this with progressive lenses which correct both, but are not ideal for shooting. These lenses are not good for rifle shooting because they blur out when looking through them off-axis, as you do when you shoulder a rifle and place it against your cheek.

I therefore shoot with regular glasses, without the presbyopia correction. This corrects my vision to about 20/15—distant vision. This is very good for looking at things that are far away and not so good for focusing on things that are close—like rifle sights. In short--the farther something is from my eye, the more sharply I can focus on it.

The advantage that the 1911 rifles have is two-fold. The greatest advantage is that the rear and front sights are further from my eye than the K31 sights and therefore easier to focus on. The 1911 front sight is approximately 6 inches further from my eye than the K31 front sight. This allows me to focus more sharply on it.




Just as importantly, the rear sight of the 1911 is approximately 3.5” further from my eye than the K31 rear sight. This makes both the front and rear sights significantly more sharply focused for me than the K31 sights.



The second advantage of the 1911 over the K31, is the sight radius. Since both sights on the 1911 are in better focus than on the K31, I can use the extra sight radius to better effect on the 1911. This is not a huge advantage, as the difference in the sight radius is only about 2.5 inches. (about 22.5 inches on the K31 and about 25 inches on the 1911).

I do believe that the 1911 rifles are inherently more accurate than the shorter K31 rifles. I can overcome some of the disadvantages of the closer sights of the K31 by careful aiming and concentration. My 1911's and 96/11's are consistently more accurate (marginally) than my K31's.

This is a target that I fired at 100 yards while testing a handload for one of my 1911 rifles. It represents about the best group that I've fired with iron sights through a 1911:



This is a group that I fired through one of my K31's while testing handloads and represents about the best I've done with a K31 and iron sights (the group in question is the two at the bottom of the red center and the three just outside the bottom of the red center. The scattered shots are a group fired from the same rifle with 0.5 grains less powder. Amazing what a difference 0.5 grains of powder can make)


There is a significant although not huge difference in the group size with the advantage going to the 1911.

Guess someday I will have to mount scopes on my Swiss rifles to do an "ultimate accuracy test" of the 1911 and k31 rifles.

[Aragorn243]

I'm having the same sort of problems with my eyes. I'm very badly nearsighted and have been my whole life but the loss of the near focus ability is new and I have not adjusted to it well yet. I'm still functioning on regular glasses as I can still read comfortably with them. But focusing on the open sights and the far target has become a challenge.

[Calfed]

I have bad news for you...it gets worse with age

[Aragorn243]

Our school rifle coach has a "monocle" of some sort. It fits on a headband type arrangement and extends down above his eye. He can position it where he needs it. He's in his 70's and continues to shoot competitions with peep sight 22's. He's been telling me to get one, which I may, but I'd like my eyes to settle down a bit before doing so.

[Calfed]

Knobloch and a few other companies make a frame that accepts small "monocle" lenses like you describe. Have been meaning to look into them, but they are pricy

Knobloch shooting glasses

[Aragorn243]

That's pretty close to what he has. He swears by it.