Bullets for the .303?

[Rumpelhardt]

Any one tried these? Bullets 7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian (7.62x53mm Rimmed) (311 Diameter) 200 Grain Full Metal Jacket Boat Tail Box of 100
A little pricey but they make excellent stuff.

Information

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[David TS]

There is talk that boat tails (and those in question are very pronounced) do not stabilise at longer ranges in Enfields, and they can cause throat erosion.

That may of course be an internet myth, it wouldn't be the first

[Rumpelhardt]

My thoughts were that with the rebated boat tail and relitivly long bearing surface they might work out better than the normal boat tail design. I may well be wrong on this.

[Brian Dick]

David TS, It's not a myth but you haven't quite got it right. Boat tail bullets don't stabilize well in rifles that have seen a lot of use with cordite ammo. It has to do with the throat erosion wear pattern caused by the very hot burning cordite. The Mk. 7 and Mk.7z ammo has flat base bullets. The Mk.8z has boat tails for use in machine guns. They won't perform in machine guns either if the barrel has been shot extensively with cordite ammo. I've seen it in the Vickers MMG. They'll keyhole at 100 yards. Brian

[crusty]

The picture is WRONG, they are a hollow point boat-tail & .312 diameter. They shoot extremely well in my No4 Mk2 & No1 MkIII*. I also have a No4 Mk1 with target barrel & ph sights that shoots small groups at 100.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...roductId/21415

They are only available from Grafs

[Kysusha]

I shoot my own BARNAUL pills, 125gn SP, 174gn SP, 174gn FMJ, 185gn FMJ and 203gn SP. Have great success. The 125gn SP loaded to about 2,700fps is devastating on Fallow deer. Dropped a Spiker, front quarter shot, uphill – hit the spine, ricochet down the length of the spine and exited out the hip and lodged just under the skin in the rump at 120 metres. Pill mushroom perfectly and retained 82% of it’s original weight. Spiker went down like a head shot.

[David TS]

David TS, It's not a myth but you haven't quite got it right. Boat tail bullets don't stabilize well in rifles that have seen a lot of use with cordite ammo. It has to do with the throat erosion wear pattern caused by the very hot burning cordite. The Mk. 7 and Mk.7z ammo has flat base bullets. The Mk.8z has boat tails for use in machine guns. They won't perform in machine guns either if the barrel has been shot extensively with cordite ammo. I've seen it in the Vickers MMG. They'll keyhole at 100 yards. Brian

Brian

Ah, right, thanks

[Cdn303]

And let us not forget that enfield rifling was designed for flat based bullets.

To shoot accuratly the bullet needs to form a good seal (or obturate) to prevent gas blowby. With a boat tail bullet this might not happen. Remember that a lot of barrels are nearly a century old are often not up to the highest standards. They need a bullet that will obturate in order to fill the barrel completely, preventing gas blowby which will destabilise the bullet upon exit from the bore. Flat based bullets do this best.

That is not the say that they will not work. If you have a bore in good condition it may shoot them really well. But if your bore is slightly oversized (like most of my enfields), or worn, they may not.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

The other problem with Lee Enfields is the GROOVE diameter.

According to the factory drawings, this can be as great as 0.320" and still be in spec.

Thus, a .312" bullet has to bulge a bit to achieve complete obturation. This is NEVER going to happen with a solid-based "sporting" boat-tailed bullet. I have never tried to recover a Mk8 projectile after firing to measure it. Anyone got the data?

Once the gas bleed around the base of bullets has eaten away at the throat and start of the rifling, it will never get better, and using boat-tails in a cordite-eroded barrel is simply going to exacerbate the problem rapidly. This applies to ANY sort of boat-tailed bullet whether open at the front or rear.

At the 2011 SHOT show I had a chat to a Canadian chap who seemed to be in the bullet business. He was canvassing various folk about a Mk7 or equivalent run. The phrase "minimum of 2 million" stuck in my mind. So, unless the hard-core amongst us want to pool for such a run (cash up front), maybe the trick is to get the Russian bullets (correct weight and diameter), and use custom bullet dies to swage the base back to the correct parallel profile. See Mr Corbin for ideas.

Actually, Corbin can sell you the tools to make ANY bullet of your wildest desire, if you have the cash. "Standard" types, INCLUDING flat based FMJs can be made using their tooling. And, NO, I am not on a percentage from them.

[drweiler]

Where the heck did I read that Kynamco Limited in the U.K. still makes military spec .303 174 grain FMJ flat base MkV11 bullets? Any correction/information would be appreciated. Cheers, Don