6.5 Carcano M38 Question

[pcaru1]

Does anyone know what goes into this hole in the buttstock? I thought it was for an oiler but it is to small. Maybe a cleaning kit? Can they still be found?

Can modern ammo ( Prvi) be fired in these rifles or do you have to use surplus? This is my first Italian rifle. TIA.

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[jmoore]

Prvi ammo will shoot, but the bullets are usually too small for good accuracy. Old surplus ammo may not be reliable, but you could pull the bullets and reload in new cases. Or find some Hornady ammo if your bore is in excellent shape. Could use Norma but it's not only expensive, but it's about the worst new ammo out there for this rifle.

I don't have the gear that goes in the buttstock, but I think there's a recent thread showing it. Maybe. Aragorn243's?

When you do shoot it, remember that the sights are not zeroed for 100yds unless you bury the front blade in the notch until it's about hidden. Or use a full size silhouette target and aim at the belt buckle area.

Your rifle looks like no one's messed with it. That's a good sign!

Looking forward to seeing some detail shots.

[Aragorn243]

The hole in the buttstock is for a cleaning rod. I'll have to check to see if I have the 2 or 3 piece rod. One is correct for this model, the other isn't. Pretty sure I have the correct version.

Privi Partisan goes bang, very loud. The bullets fly out of the end of the barrel and from there, I have no idea where they go. I think they explode upon exiting the barrel. My cavalry carbine has a very good bore, nice and bright, no fouling, strong rifling but I couldn't hit an 8.5x11 piece of paper at 25 yards.

Could be that I was not burying the front blade until hidden, I did experiment with it but that was one thing I did not do, so I was probably shooting way high.

[smellie]

Chances are that you were shooting high BUT.......

.......... some European makers DO turn out bullets which are MUCH too hard for some military rifles. This came home to me rather forcefully just after I took my Arisaka Type 38 out for the first time. Shooting Norma factory ammo, the thing printed 4 on a nickel at 145 measured yards, iron sights, sandbags, so I determined to try some handloads. Loaded up my box of brass, used some Highest Quality Swedish-made BT Match slugs, took the old Ari out again. At 225 yards I shot a 5-round group which was 20 feet high by 30 feet wide. NO bullet hit the target.

Time for thinking.

Firing 3 rounds in succession with a witness in place, the bullets were observed EXPLODING about 10 to 15 feet in front of the muzzle. What was HAPPENING was that the very deep 4-groove Metford rifling of the Arisaka was distorting the bullet beyond its limits, the bullet jackets were cracking and the rest was according to observation. When I reloaded the cases with American-made soft-jacketed flatbase Remington 140 bulk bullets, just about the cheapest things you can find, the problem disappeared completely.

The rifling of the Carcano in all models except the '41, is GAIN-TWIST. This puts a great deal of strain on the bullet, as the twist rate of the rifling actually better than DOUBLES as the bullet passes down the bore. It is possible for a hard-jacketed bullet to distort past its limits and give results such as you are experiencing. I DO know that my Carcanos behave well with that same flatbase Remington 140...... and the ones with the typical loose bores shoot very nicely with the Hornady 160 CARCANO bullet.

PRVI PARTIZAN load their Carcano ammunition with BT .263" bullets with relatively hard jackets. This could be the problem with your rifle. The Partizan ammo is just WONDERFUL for the brass ( and I REALLY wish we could get it here!), but I really think they should go to an oversize bullet with a flat base for these old rifles.

As to my original Swedish bullets with the boat-tails and the hard jackets..... I wish I could find another few thousand: they shot BRILLIANTLY in a Swedish Mauser..... even though they REALLY don't like Arisakas!

Hope this helps.
.

[Aragorn243]

LOL, I was joking when I said they might be exploding on exiting the barrel. Amazing that might be what is actually happening to them.

My cleaning rod is two piece by the way. So if my memory is correct, the cavalry carbine accepts the two piece cleaning rod. It does extend through the barrel, just.