Correct bayonet type for No.4 Mk2 rifles?

[PA_RIFLEMAN303]

were they issued with the no.9 blade or the no.4 spike?

Information

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[NRA]

I will go out on the limb and say blade type

[Mr303]

Issued with a No9.

[Frederick303]

Irish Army only issued their rifles with the No 9 MK I, dated DE-53 or DE 54

[Peter Laidler]

Let's nip this in the bud straight away. The rifle was not ever issued with a bayonet. It was issued to the unit or regiment etc etc as, say, 1,000 rifles and came with 1,000 bayonets of all sorts shapes and sizes plus 1,l000 slings - again, of all different makes and colours and 1,000 cleaning kits. If it was issued with a bayonet, sling and cleaning kit it would come with a part number of B1/CRxxxA but it comes with a GA suffix indicating that it is a general assembly and there ain't nothin' else......, that's it - on its own! I can tell you that there was a whole mixture of bayonets

I take on board Freds comments above but if an Army purchased, say 500 Mk2 rifles and 500 No9 bayonets, I'm at a loss as to what they did with the other, say, 1000 other bayonets that they already possessed. Britain NEVER sanctioned the numbering of bayonets to rifles on the basis that there was no need....... they were all interchangeable in any case!

Nope......... The attrition rate of bayonets through training and other fair, wear and tear would mean that the bayonet dictated the scrappage/wastage/attrition waste of the rifle.

[Beerhunter]

Similar to the question: "What would be the correct sling for a No.4 Mk.(put any Mk. you like) made by (put any any manufacturer you like) made in (put any date you like). " Answer: "The one you were given!"

[Jugs]

I have seen some No9's with what would appear to be rifle s/n on them. Furthermore, I do know of a No4 Mk2 rifle/No9 bayonet combination were the bayonet does have the rifle s/n on it and looks very 'Factory' done. Who would have done this numbering if the factories did not do it?

[Peter Laidler]

Done with letter and number stamps Jugs........ That cuts through the hard oven baked paint and phosphate too! Hardly factory done! I have an opinion of the quality of the stampings and ........ anyway.........

There is some speculation by others..........., not me you understand........, that the numered bayonets and scabbards were all done '......in order to help dispose of the thousands of surplus, new, still wrapped No9 bayonets. And what better that to 'match' these new in wrap bayonets with the newly released wrapped rifles' Well.........., there's a thing! You COULD ask yourselves this low baller. If the Irish numbered their rifle bayonets, why didn't they number their SMG bayonets too?

Whoever thought up the idea really wasn't the brightest light in the box either because the blades and sockets are pretty hard and soon take the shine, and sharpness off your number stamps. As for stamping numbers on the mouths of thin, rolled, tubular scabbards, denting them as they went along............ well, really. And to achieve what? The bayonets are all interchangeable anyway!

Anyway, that's just my opinion for what it's worth

[Jugs]

Thank you PL for your reply. Sorry that I seem to have struck a raw nerve on this subject but in understanding that it was in fact NOT the factory, was just asking who may have done such markings and why!.. Anyway, thanks again for the information.

[Frederick303]

Capt. Laidler, Just a few clarifications on the Irish armies use:

1) Prior to the purchase of the No 4 MkII rifles from the UK, Ireland had no No4 rifles at all, hence no bayonets for this rifle type.

2) When the rifles were purchased in 1953 to 1955, the purchase specified 50,000 bayonets as well as the rifles. The bayonets supplied in the three received lots were all No 9 Mk I pattern, as verified by direct inquiry to the Irish military archives with a written response on that direct point..

4) According to more then one source who was involved with the last surplus sale of these rifles to century arms in 1996, the rifles that had never been issued came in wooden boxes of 5 rifles each, each rifle packed individually and also in each box were 5 No 9 Mk I bayonets, in the grease and wrapped like the rifles. None of these bayonets were serialized to the rifles.

5) Rifles issued in October of 1954 had the serial number of the rifle applied to the bayonet. This also seems to be the case in the trials order lot (of 500 rifles) which was received prior to October of 1953 (not exactly sure of the date). Where they were applied is not known and a point of contention. The evidence collected to date tends to support the contention that the Irish army applied these numbers.

6) Of the bayonets that can be linked to Irish army providence, by serial number, every one is a Enfield No 9 Mk I bayonet, dated either DE 53 or DE 54, none later. The total number of bayonets in the sample lot is 91 bayonets.

7) Ireland also purchased a number of M45 Karl Gustav sub machine guns. Of these machine guns, 600 were modified around 1960/61 to enable them to be used with a No 9 MK I bayonet. A small number of these bayonets are known to exist with the Irish army submachine gun number applied; I have 2 in my database. Where these bayonets were obtained, either taken from unused rifles or as a separate UK order is unknown.

So in regards to my comments pertaining to the Irish army, I stand by them and defend the data that supports the above, if someone cares to dispute these points.