Argentine FAL Spotting Rifle

[Stanleyrf89]

Hi, I'm looking for any information or photographs relating to the FAL heavy barrel rifles fitted to the Argentine 105mm recoilless rifles.

I've read elsewhere that they had a 5 or 10 round magazine, and from some photographs I have seen appeared to have a male mounting boss near the gas block that located into a female boss on the recoilless rifle, with the FAL laying on it's side, with bipod removed.

The photographs that I have are not clear enough to see the detail. I'm looking for information as I have both the 105mm gun and the FAL HB, and want to be able to bring them together!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[browningautorifle]

I can't wait to see this thread develop. I'm VERY familiar with the 106 recoiless rifle and the only spotter I EVER heard of used was the M8C spotter in .50 (short) with incendiary tracer projectile...I don't doubt what you say, I just want to be sure here. Another variation? Got pics?

[Stanleyrf89]

Attachment 35924Attachment 35925Indeed, lets hope it sparks some debate!

I've attached a copy of the best photo that I have showwing the rifle in position, and a shot of the corresponding boss on the 105mm.

On the FAL either the magazine hasn't been fitted, or could be a short 5/10 round variant, and it looks like a BFA has been fitted.

Look forward to seeing what people have got to say.

[Skip]

Same here. The 7.62X51 round velocity is a lot more than the snubby 50 cal spotter. The spotter round mimics the velocity of the main 106 round.

[Stanleyrf89]

I should also have mentioned that the British 120mm MOBAT recoilless gun had a coaxial Bren gun mounted as a spotting rifle, so I think that there may be a precedent for smaller calibre spotting rifles being used.

[browningautorifle]

Well, there was a sub cal for the 106 that used the M2 .30 cal round. We had 2000 rounds in my battallion for some time and the armourer shop finally turned it in for salvage. Maybe the 7.62 round used in this case is modified. I have a couple used in the 84mm Carl Gustav that have a white tip and a light charge for the 7.62 insert for the Carl G. I wonder what Peter Laidler has seen?

[Peter Laidler]

I am SURE that there was an L1A1 rifle used as a sub calibre device for the 120mm tank gun. I could be wrong of course and it COULD have been for the BAT anti-tank gun that would have used it on the 25yard range. I have a funny feeling that the converted rifle was less the gas parts and was the L27A1 or something like that. I bet Kevin the Kiwi will know about it if this was the case

[Stanleyrf89]

Thanks Peter, don't suppose you have any knowledge of the Argentine FAL based version? I'm guessing they were removed at the end of the Falkalnds conflict from the recoilless guns, did any make it back to the SASC?

[Peter Laidler]

Nope, none at our end of the world but I'm sure that there was a little No8 rifle converted for some thing and a .22" sportco self loader for something else then the big M8C of course and I think the L1A1/L27 for the tank gun sub cal

Strangely, the M8C was the only gun I know of where you could actually make one up from parts at Base workshop. Mind you, it was the only one that nobody a) ever wanted or b) could never use in a zillion years! The M8C's were never actually OWNED by the UK Government. They were all loaned or leased and when the big (and useless.....) BAT's were withdrawn, the M8C's were returned to the US

[Stanleyrf89]

So after 3 months of digging, scrounging and pleading I've been fortunate enough to get my hands on the original service manual for the 105mm recoilless rifle, which confirms that the FM FAP (Argentine version of the FN FAL HB) was fitted co-axially.

In terms of operation it was then used for direct fire targets up to 1200m, using a specific spotter round, and firing single rounds or bursts as required.

I've attached some photographs from the manual, which illustrate how the barrel adaptor was fitted (which then locks into a socket on the barrel) and the machining made to the stock to allow to consistently position itself when swung into the locked position. Firing was via a cable arrangement, and you can see in one of the photographs how the pistol grip of the rifle is drilled right through to enable the cable pull mechanism to lock into place.

With all of this I'm going to start the manufacturing process for the mounts so that I can complete the restoration of my artillery piece - I'll post photographs as it progresses.