Collecting on the cheap.

[CRNeophyte]

I'm new. i have yet to make my first collection purchase and will need to do so relatively inexpensively. What are your recent less then expensive firearm acquisitions? I'm just looking for ideas for when i have the resources to chase into my gun safe. I've got a filled out FFL type 03 license waiting for an upcoming move before i file it. Right now the money seems to go farthest in a Mosin Nagant, Which seems to be a great rifle.


I handled one at a local shop where they insisted what they had was a 600 item. after finding some for inside of 100 i looked a little sideways and kept moving.

Also, is there any way to get a heads up on upcoming milsurp availability? i'm not finding any clues on line, but i honestly dont know what i'm looking for yet.

Thanks! hope ya'll are having a good week.

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[Sarge]

You don't give a clue as to what time period you are interested in since the Mosian Nagant could be WW 1 or WW 2.
IF WW 2 then the cheapest/least expensive would be ruskie, Brit & German RCs in that order with costs being $200+/-, $300+/- and $400+/-.
IF you are getting an FFL to use to buy for your collection - Wrong move! Get a C&R lisc for that purpose.
Sarge

[jmoore]

Also, is there any way to get a heads up on upcoming milsurp availability?

No! Aside from Mosin Nagants there's no readily available supplies anymore. It pays to educate yourself before spending money. You just have to decide what interests you. If your interests are broad then expect to spend lots of time hunting up good reference material. If you focus on one specific area, then the job is easier. A good "hands on" education isn't as easy these days. But learning the ins and outs of "condition", including military, commercial, and home rebuilds is fairly important if you don't want to spend limited funds on items that may not be what they first appear to be.

[Patrick Chadwick]

To underline what jmoore wrote: if you start off just collecting without any experience or specific aim, and your prime criterion is "cheap", then in a very short time you are likely to discover that what you have is a cellar full of leftovers. Take it easy - the learning curve can otherwise turn out to be expensive.

I live in Germany, where unless you are a licensed collector (which means turning your cellar in to a strongroom, with alarm system, visits from inspectors etc) you are only allowed to purchase 2 longarms in 6 months. No doubt people in other countries would find this very annoying, but the restriction means that one is forced to consider each purchase carefully. If I rush out and buy a dud, or simply something that turns out to be disappointing, I cannot simply pass it on and buy something else. The 6-month rule is rigorous, and is not reduced if I sell something.

Although it is doubtless not easy to apply such a rule as self-discipline, I recommend that you try to do so. And remember that Mosins, Enfields, Mausers, yes even Springfields, were made by the millions, so there is no need to rush to buy the first one you see. There will be others, later, when you can make a better judgement.

And get in touch with others who have rifles of the type you would like to collect. Look for a gun club where others shoot old service rifles. The most intensive study of books and photos cannot replace the learning effect of actually handling old artefacts. The more you can handle, examine (and fire!), the more you will develop a feeling for what is good, what is OK, what is iffy, and what is downright fake.

You will come across all of these in time, but as a beginner will find it hard to tell the difference. Go slowly, and good luck!

[rl2800]

You have one advantage - rifles on the east coast can be a little easier to find an slightly less expensive than the west coast. I agree with all the posts above - if you want to be collector do your research. There may be books at your library to get started - there is alot of information on this site. I chose to buy books on each type I own but that can get expensive in itself. The history of the firearm makes collecting worth it for me. If all you want is cheap military surplus you're limited to buying a random mosin online for about $100. There are Hungarian/Austrian straight pulls available for less than $200 online also as well as Yugo Mausers for about $250. I would check all the gun stores and pawn shops in your area to get a feel for what's out there and the condition of these old rifles. Between the cost of the rifle and ammo I have not found it to be a 'cheap' hobby. Good luck.

[jmoore]

Attention to detail is invaluable. Even as a beginner, you can find good gear reasonably cheap locally IF you accept the fact that 95% of what you see will have dramas, minor or major. What makes it more difficult now is that the mass quantities of milsurps all piled up together in one spot for sale just aren't about. My first Enfield AND first Milsurp AND first rifle that I bought was selected from a row of about 30 in an Army/Navy store in the '70s. But I had read a fair amount beforehand. (Granted it was mostly WHB Smith and other books from the '40s)

Still have that WWI Enfield, and it's still one of my better ones, but I now know it was a 1937 rebuild.

A photo from a range trip this year:

[CRNeophyte]

Sarge! thanks for taking the time to respond,
I do not have a time period in mind for collection. I honestly think i'm just generally interested in weapons that i've read about in class, and seen in movies based in historical conflicts. I like the Mosin due to what i've been able to glean about the weapon in a day or two of research. Cost is a factor as hobbies are for the time being going to have to be casual interests i in no way meant to insult the mosin by referring it to the weapon as being a cheap POS in that sense of the word. In response to your FFL Comment, FFL type 03 is the Curio and Relic's fire arm license. After doing some reading on the license and finding websites that have C&R eligible categories i'm finding an interest in the weapons i've seen so far.

Really my goal right now is exposure to different points of view and i want to take the time to thank you for yours.

---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 PM ----------

Well, my initial goals and interests are focused on three rifles, the enfield, the Garand and the Mosin Nagant. I've seen the CWP listings for the garands and i'm likely going to go for rack grade. I like the idea of keeping my first raggedy rifle forever. Enfield will likely be the last i pick up unless i suddenly find where all the free ones are. and the mosin is just so highly praised i cant help but be interested. The cost factor on the mosin is really what i anticipate to be a gateway to an addiction. I however am very excited.

I am cautious not to be ripped off, i do not know any collectors so i dont have much chance to get someone i trust involved with the purchasing process to ensure i dont get a cap gun by mistake. I tend to circle the pool for a very long time before jumping in, but once i'm in i know how to swim. Thanks Jmoore for taking the time to respond.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 PM ----------

Patrick, Thanks for your very valuable advice and perspective.
I have a very tight budget for this interest.. and i think two long guns per six months would be an overestimate of what i'll have available. There are a variety of associations in my area, most of which are paid memberships. I have a bit of awkward schoolboy left in me when i go to the range i get overly excited and i think i make folks uncomfortable. you dont want discomfort at the range when you're asking for a tour of their arsenal. I'll try to get more range time in before making a purchasing decision.

Thanks patrick.

---------- Post added at 10:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 PM ----------

RL, when your referring to Hungarian/Austrian pulls, what are you talking about? is this a variant of the Mosin Nagant or is it another model of rifle entirely? I likely will go for the 100 priced mosin before moving on to the garand and others. I do alot of my reading on my computer with PDF books. many of which are available on sites which publish works in the public domain for little or no cost.

Man i cant wait to go digging through pawn shops. i dont quite have the cash yet to buy, but i think i'll love getting acquainted with my purchase before i actually get one home.

---------- Post added at 10:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 PM ----------

JM! Dang thats a beautiful weapon. i like the grain and the character on the stock. I see alot of the people selling nagant's are also selling upcharged versions with laminated stocks. the wear and the abuse the rifle undertook during service gives it character which should not be ignored or so carelessly replaced. This the "Mad Minute" rifle right?

[Clash77]

I've seen some of the Schmidt-Rubin models go for sub $350, so if you're interested in a very accurate and unique rifle you could go that route too.

Also, while nothing to swear by, you should pick up a copy of Standard Catalog of Military Firearms by Philip Peterson. It's not perfect and doesn't have quite as extensive information as more specialized books, but it's good as a baseline for an approximate idea of what you should be spending on particular firearms.

[CRNeophyte]

Clash,
What exactly is a Schmidt-Rubin ? a quick google search got me a very interesting uh.. Ring action rifle which i've never seen before. are these mosin variants? they seem to have alot of similarities.

Thanks for the recommendation on the book, i'll look into finding a copy somewhere.

---------- Post added at 06:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 AM ----------

man that book depressed me a little bit. Page 13 is all about how scarce and improbable it is to find a weapon in good condition anymore. eh... nothing like a little bit of deterrent and obstacle to make you want it more

[Clash77]

No they're not Mosin variants. The Schmidt-Rubin is a Swiss straight-pull bolt action rifle. They're known for their excellent quality and are typically very accurate and reliable.

If you're absolutely set on a Mosin Nagant, I'd save up a little extra and look for a Finnish Mosin or an early Hex receiver Russian Mosin. The $90 arsenal refurb ones are not really worth it in my opinion.